advertisement


Sondek LP12 arm options

<cre009> Thank you very much for shedding light on what has become a pivotal moment in the history of audio. The story of two hard men and one idea.

I guess this account will be definitive as we are going to get unless Ivor decides to tell us more.
 
A fair few years back I used a Breuer on my old Sondek which sounded pretty good with his cartridge. Then went through ittocks, moerchs up4 and dp6, but after a while settled on a Mission Mechanic. Still have that on a modded sondek running a Decca c4e and it still sounds decent. I'd look out for one of those arms or an old Zeta/ Breuer
 
Some very interesting replies here, my first LP12 was fitted with an SME 3009 series II improved fixed headshell, because at the time early 1970s BG (Before Grace) it was considered THE only tonearm for the serious (and I was a very serious teenager at the time, it was my first deck, first tonearm, first system) I have probably tried more tonearms on an LP12 than almost anyone, some no one here would even have heard of, I wont list them as it would get very boring and I would forget more than a few of them.

I really think the Ittok and Ekos work best on the LP12, I'm not a Linnie, I don't own any Linn equipment at this precise moment. I don't know how much of this is down to design or chance. The Ittok was inspired by the Breuer type 5A (yes I owned the 5 and the 8) but if you have them side by side you would never guess, the "Fletcher arm", "The Arm", or Sumiko MDC-800 was also inspired by the Breuer (but mainly it's extreme rarity, Erhard Breuer could only make so many after all). The Breuer is a work of art, in every way, the Brinkmann is not even close (yes I've owned one and every other arm I mention). And yet the Ittok on the LP12 was better, it's not that the Ittok was a better arm, it's just that it really "works" on the LP12, I have never encountered a more remarkable symbioses, or hyper compatibility with any other Hi-Fi equipment. The Ittok (and obviously the Ekos) compensates for the LP12s failings both in the bass and the high frequencies (if this was by design then it remains Ivors finest moment). There are tonearms that do better in specific aspects but none that are as musically valid with the LP12, yes the Aro is more relaxed, the Breuer more transparent, if I ever own another LP12 (I've had around six) it will be with an Ekos (II or SE) or an Ittok.

I'm certain that you, dear reader own a Tom, Dick or Harry tonearm that ticks every box, that you "know" is far better than a 40 year old (well next year) TickTok, but I would say that if at all possible you should try an Ittok/Ekos, by try I mean live with it for a month, not just a few hours, forget about listening to whatever you usually listen to when "assessing" Hi-Fi equipment, forget about all that nonsense and just enjoy the music, then you will hear everything without even trying, if you then don't agree with me, I'll buy you a Beer!

PS the first 3 "almost production" Ittoks to arrive in the UK traveled on a first class seat, not in the cargo hold, (I told you they were special), not a lot of people know that.
 
I bought my LP12 in 1984, secondhand, for £475. I then fitted it with an Ittok...can't remember how much that cost. I recently sold it on Ebay for £1245. I think I was brainwashed by the hi-fi press of the time and certainly by a friend I had who had worked in a hi-fi shop in Wilmslow who considered LP12s to be the living end. He convinced me to buy one and I subsequently owned it for 33 years. As I was prepping it for sale, I had occasion to open it up to clean it and check all was well. I was appalled at how primitive it was under the surface. I replaced it with a Hanss Acoustics T-30 which blew the Linn away in terms not only of sound quality but sheer engineering prowess. The LP12 is, in my opinion, not the turntable the marketing guys would have us believe it is, especially in its less expensive guises, neither in 1984 nor today.

I bought my first LP12 new in 1991 and was also shocked when I removed the base to find how crude it looked under it's skin, I was also shocked by the piece of hardboard base. I still have some affection for the deck though, probably through nostalgia.
 
I really think the Ittok and Ekos work best on the LP12...
I'm certain that you, dear reader own a Tom, Dick or Harry tonearm that ticks every box, that you "know" is far better than a 40 year old (well next year) TickTok, but I would say that if at all possible you should try an Ittok/Ekos, by try I mean live with it for a month, if you then don't agree with me, I'll buy you a Beer!
.
I have a Notts Omega Point, bought it in 1997 on my first LP12. Bought an LP12/Cirkus/Lingo/Ittok in 2001, sold it 2008 (?). This never matched up to the LP12 with Notts, however much I wanted it to. Notts now lives on my 401 and has since 2010, it's a better arm than the Ittok. So that's 4 years of the Notts on a Linn, 7 years of the Ittok, 7 years of the Notts on a 401. The Ittok is good, but second best. So thanks, I'll have a Timmy Taylor's Landlord. Most kind.
 
What SQ level is the Jelco at next to RB300, Akito, Ittok, Ekos? I have an old LP12 I want to get running again and I need an arm of decent quality. I sold an LP12 with an Ekos 2 so I'm not looking to go to that level again.
 
hi,i liked my jelco750 and with at33ptg will sound really good,ekos is a better arm,roksan Tabriz sounds really good as well,had about 5 lp12,s my favourite being Avondale modded one,with artimiz,it makes sense to put motor on sub chassis,especially one as good as Avondale,no slipping clutch,the naim aro only works with carts with the same overhang as linn carts,i know a member from fife Scotland who had his lp12 sub chassis well braced long before circus,perfect name for it,and a lvx is a poor arm unless you have nothing,a lot of my best listening was with lp12 but when I bought gyro se that was it for me,better sound and lovely parts,anyway when i go to the south side i stop at linn park and do my praying on a linn rug,his dad did make nice parts for ariston,i was a victim of hifi press bias,but it learnt me a lot,no offence to anyone it is about the music,regards charlie
 
I took a punt on another Project 9cc. I bought a new Majik LP12 with the 9cc and Akito several years ago and that was a good combination. This time round I'm rebuilding a mid 80s pre-cirkus(which I actually prefer) deck with a Hercules Mose, 9cc and AT33R. I use an Orbe but I can't go through life without an LP12- I'm sentimentally attached to the old git.
 
Gosh these days it's almost as fashionable to bash the LP12 as it was to own one. I've had mine since 1981, paid £525(baring a few years when my brother owned it) and have enjoyed every minute of it. The revisionist bollocks on display is laughable-it's a good deck that in my case, pretty bog standard valhalla/nirvana version with an Alphason Xenon arm, has made vinyl an enjoyable listen for 35 years. That's 28p per week! No one conned or ripped me off...oh the Xenon/LP12 is a good match too.
 
What SQ level is the Jelco at next to RB300, Akito, Ittok, Ekos? I have an old LP12 I want to get running again and I need an arm of decent quality. I sold an LP12 with an Ekos 2 so I'm not looking to go to that level again.

The Jelco is head and shoulders above a RB300 and in my opinion better than an Ittok. I really rate the Jelco, my 750D has moved from my DIY Lenco onto a LP12 then onto my now current SL1200G, non of these decks has outclassed the Jelco.
 
Gosh these days it's almost as fashionable to bash the LP12 as it was to own one. I've had mine since 1981, paid £525

Blimey - I bought mine in August '80 for £340. That's a hell of a price rise within a year (unless you're also including arm and/or cartridge in that).

And yes, still using mine daily and more than happy with it. I just stay out of the Linn bashing threads where possible.

Mick
 
Blimey - I bought mine in August '80 for £340. That's a hell of a price rise within a year (unless you're also including arm and/or cartridge in that).

And yes, still using mine daily and more than happy with it. I just stay out of the Linn bashing threads where possible.

Mick

No one's bashing the Linn LP12. Almost all the criticism comes from former owners who have had less than a satisfying time with it.

If nothing else it can help those who are thinking of getting one to weigh up some of the factors (history, 1980s hype, complex upgrade path, setup stability, never ending expenses, alternatives, value retention etc.)

Perhaps mine, as someone mentioned in a setup thread, just had a dodgy (bendy) top plate! If it works for you, then that's great too. Horses for courses.
 
+1. The LP12 is a great deck, it's just not the only game in town and there are alternatives. I grew up in the 80's, at that time the LP12 was absolutely the only game in town. Everything else was just sh8t. I believed this for 15 years, when I bought one. It was a great deck, and over many years of using that, other LP12s and other decks, I came to learn that it was very good, but so were others. I'm not the only one to have had the scales lifted from his eyes in this fashion. So am I knocking the LP12? No, I'm merely saying that in contrast to the 80's belief that it was the only game in town, other decks are worth listening to. If I am knocking anything, it's the lazy 80's hifi press who allowed themselves to be bought by advertising revenue and freebies and who held back other great hifi so that they could carry on riding on the Linn gravy train.
 
If I am knocking anything, it's the lazy 80's hifi press who allowed themselves to be bought by advertising revenue and freebies and who held back other great hifi so that they could carry on riding on the Linn gravy train.

That needed to be said TBH; I fell for it like a lot of other people. I use other decks now, though I stopped short of getting rid of the Linn and it now resides in the office system; why are we so gullible?
 
Blimey - I bought mine in August '80 for £340. That's a hell of a price rise within a year (unless you're also including arm and/or cartridge in that).

And yes, still using mine daily and more than happy with it. I just stay out of the Linn bashing threads where possible.

Mick
Yep that price included the Alphason(£345+£180).
Before that I had a SP25, PL12D, Thorens TD160, Ariston RD11/SME, Technics SL120/SME.
 
I came at the LP12 from a different angle - I heard one in my youth (mid 80s) with a full Naim setup of amps and speakers. I wasn’t that impressed, and I only had a Q-Deck and nad 3130 with Mission 737r at the time. I just assumed they were all hype and avoided them.

Fast forward to 2007 and I spotted a cheap 1977 model for sale in a small ads paper cheap in Dublin - went to see it and bought it for €300 (around £200 at the time) with the sole intention of selling it for profit. I quickly serviced it and did a bodge setup and made the mistake of listening to it. It was very poor resolving dynamically (early Linn arm and cartridge) in comparison to my CDi CD player, but it was very nice to listen to. I sold the arm and cartridge and got my money back, and still own the LP12, with a Sole subchassis and DIY Armageddon type PSU and a Mission 774 arm. Comparisons with the CDi are now more down to the mastering than the format, I can choose examples of either format to make them sound better than the other.

It’s not the only good player of course, I also own a TD124, HK ST8 and 3 Lencos - but I do not ever see me selling it :) I would also suggest the 774 arm is a good match, but I have not listened to some of the other exotic choices mentioned upthread.

As a post script to that early Linn/Naim system - I’ve never listened to another decent Linn LP12, but have listened to other full Naim setups since - not for me :) I love their CDPs though.
 
I have owned a TT since I was about 9 years old mostly budget or midrange jobs and always lusted after an LP12 then about 10 years ago I bought a used Linn Axis which replaced one of the early Pro-jects then finally I bought an LP12, I replaced the Basik plus with an Ittock and the valhalla with a Lingo Mk1 and it plays music in a way that just makes me smile.
 
There does seem to be some sort of consensus here. Either go for massively over engineered till it squeaks ala a Zeta if going for a "heavy arm" or go for light ala most unipivots and other models such as the Mission 774?
 


advertisement


Back
Top