Phono stages.

[topoxforddoc]

Gromit

The TRON Convergence is £900 new for the MM version, so not much more than the new cost of your Puresound P10 (new that is). Cheaper than a new EAR 834P & Icon PS1 mk II for instance. Still £ though, I understand.

Charlie

 

[Gromit]

Thanks Charlie - the recent spate of throwing funds at my LP12 (and enjoying it immensely, thankfully!) has pretty much cleared-out my hifi piggybank for the time being, although it will recover. I don't have the P10 now - a Dynavector P75 is in its place - as I had hope to fit a low output MC to the Linn, but that itself is on the back-burner for now. The P10 was (is) very good though, better than the P75 is with MM/HOMC.

 

[topoxforddoc]

You can certainly spend a lot of money on an LP12. We've had comments on this thread about companies having introductory products, which might entice you to buy a better model of the same brand later. Linn have got that art down a "T" Important thing is that you're enjoying it.

 

[Gromit]

Linn have got that art down a "T"

100% agreed.

Fortunately the next 'upgrades' for the LP12 (beyond those I've done) cost waaaaay too much so I'm reasonably safe now. And...my kidneys aren't in a fit state to fetch much £ anyway.

 

[Pac1]

How very dare you! I was enjoying a proper, good moan.

The Convergence does look a lovely bit of kit, would be extremely interested to have a listen to one although it's a tad heavy in the £ dept for me at the moment.

If you're ever down this way, you'd be more than welcome to pop in and have a listen, and bring whatever you have for a comparison.

Sounds like you've had an enjoyable journey with your LP12 and some of your (excellent, by the way) photos do it justice. Looks like a lovely set up.

Thanks Charlie - the recent spate of throwing funds at my LP12 (and enjoying it immensely, thankfully!) has pretty much cleared-out my hifi piggybank for the time being, although it will recover. I don't have the P10 now - a Dynavector P75 is in its place - as I had hope to fit a low output MC to the Linn, but that itself is on the back-burner for now. The P10 was (is) very good though, better than the P75 is with MM/HOMC.

Having heard bothe the P10 and the D75 (which I owned) I have to say that I agree with you .

Charlie makes a good point,. Have a look inside an EAR 834P. Build quality is......errrr...ok but prices have risen insanely over the past 6 or 7 years. When I first bought my 834 Siggy, it was about £850. It's now £1575! The Icon audio is another one that's risen steeply. It is a very nice phonostage, but imho, the P10 betters them both. The TRON to my mind betters either the 834 (easily) and the D75.

What Graham has done is to produce a valve phono stage almost devoid of noise! I have no idea what the S/N ratio is, but it must be pretty high and is noticeably quieter in use than the EAR and better at the frequency extremes.

 

[Mike Reed]

Not terribly relevant, I s'pose, but as E.A.R. are being discussed, I've recently been finding out what Tim's upper level phono stage (in the 912 pre.) can do. I understand it's the equivalent of his MC4 SUT.

With 3 cart's (Urushi Vermillion, Transfig. Proteus and Benz Ebony L) on either 12" Ace Anna or PU7, it is stunning compared to my previous Superline/Supercap/ HiLine into 552 pre.

Okay, not an ideal comparison, s/s to valve, but the main benefits/changes are in the areas of holography and dynamics as well as a more tactile feel to performances. Maybe that's just the valve thing (though the valved power mono's haven't changed) but I am most surprised at the transition. as confirmed/witnessed by bake-off personnel in November.

 

[Pac1]

You're a lucky chap Mike. Apparently Tim uses very high quality SUTs in that plus has engineered it for high S/N, wide bandwidth and good bass stability. Being adjustable also helps. It's a far cry from the 834 which is nothing special really. Chalk and cheese. I wouldn't turn a 912 down! Would love to hear one some day.

 

[Mike Reed]

You're a lucky chap Mike. Apparently Tim uses very high quality SUTs in that plus has engineered it for high S/N, wide bandwidth and good bass stability. Being adjustable also helps. It's a far cry from the 834 which is nothing special really. Chalk and cheese. I wouldn't turn a 912 down! Would love to hear one some day.

I suppose luck did play a part (in sourcing at a reasonable price via servicing at E.A.R.), but it's been a journey of nearly 2 years. It was a 'must do' to go with my 509s and Quad 2905s.

It relinquished over £10K's s/h worth of Naim kit & cables, the associated boxes on my shelf and in the loft and those 'orrible DIN plugs. Definitely win-win.. Also, Eaton Socon (St. Neots) is a lot closer than Salisbury.

 

[Gromit]

If you're ever down this way, you'd be more than welcome to pop in and have a listen, and bring whatever you have for a comparison.

Sounds like you've had an enjoyable journey with your LP12 and some of your (excellent, by the way) photos do it justice. Looks like a lovely set up.

Thanks Paul - getting the Linn was a bit of an eh? moment but the last few weeks have proved (after a break of 25 years since my last one) that a well set-up LP12 is still a great way to play records.

Shame you're so far away - would be interesting to hear the Convergence MM.

Yes, the P75 isn't the greatest creation for MM/HOMC, IME it's a very MC-biased phonostage and even though the Dr T circuit caters for low, medium and high resistance 'coils it seems to work best on those of low impedance. Putting an SPU into a P75 some years ago was a major eye-opener - sounded fabulous.

 

[Pac1]

I agree. I had the Mk2 P75 and it catered well for LOMC carts. It was a lot of money for what you got back then, and seems even more so now, but it is still a safe bet if unsure about some of the others doing the rounds. MY Convergence is actually the MC one. I use a DIY build (from a kit of parts) Hagerman Cornet MM stage. It's ok and does the job well but the case supplied is a bit low rent so I'll be doing something about that this year.

 

[Chops54]

It's a far cry from the 834 which is nothing special really.

I recently built a MM phono stage using the 834 circuit as the basis for it. I went with most of the Thorsten mods and with separate HT rails for each channel, plenty of supply decoupling and good grounding it sounds pretty good. I lent it to a friend who has a two box Delphini and he says that as far as MM is concerned he much prefers the valve stage. I've asked him twice and he won't let me have the bloody thing back Oh and it sounds great with a Denon DL110. What a super cartridge this is.

 

[Pac1]

I recently built a MM phono stage using the 834 circuit as the basis for it. I went with most of the Thorsten mods and with separate HT rails for each channel, plenty of supply decoupling and good grounding it sounds pretty good. I lent it to a friend who has a two box Delphini and he says that as far as MM is concerned he much prefers the valve stage. I've asked him twice and he won't let me have the bloody thing back Oh and it sounds great with a Denon DL110. What a super cartridge this is.

Yes, no doubt a tweaked one would sound good, but the standard one I found rolled off at the frequency extremes and not especially quiet on MC.

The Thorsten mods are a well known upgrade path, but I didn't go that route with mine. Would have been interesting though as it had potential. I just didn't like the overall build quality nor some of the cheap parts used. I also wonder whether it would have been worth it with MC without upgrading the SUTs which were really one of the weak points imho.

 

[GT]

Seeing as EAR has been mentioned a lot during this thread:

During the final development phase of the Convergence phono stage it was tested along side an EAR 324. Also it was used into the line inputs of two EAR 912 preamps and tested against the on board phono stage of each 912 with very interesting results.

 

[scolarest]

Surprised no one has mentioned Tom Evans phono stages.

Currently I have The Groove modified up to the Mk2 Anniversary and am more than pleased with the performance.

It replaced a Clear Audio Reference phono stage, which was also superb but after sales and servicing were a bit of a shambles.

 

[Chops54]

Yes, Tom Evans does make some good kit but solid state doesn't really float my boat I'm afraid. ( Says he using a Crown solid state power amp )

 

[Evo]

May I warn you against any kind of like for like comparison demonstrations against your LP12 I did that as did my father.... Neither of us now use the LP12.

 

[Gromit]

May I warn you against any kind of like for like comparison demonstrations against your LP12 I did that as did my father.... Neither of us now use the LP12.

Have done plenty of those over the last 30+ years - and can say the LP12 wasn't always beaten. If it had been, one wouldn't be sitting on my shelf now.

 

[Evo]

I have owned an LP12 for some time and before that I listened to my Dad's Sondek. I listened to akurate level Sondeks, a Gryo and an Orbe a couple of Projects a Funk Firm and even an old Pink Triangle pt1. I now own the PT1 which replaced my LP12 and left me with £500 left over and better sound quality. My Dad now has a Gyro which knocks spots of his LP12. Now I know that there are many iterations of Sondek but, for me, subjective as it is, the Sondek is extremely expensive. I loved the Klimax LP12 but the price is frankly for those who have money to burn.

 

[Mike Reed]

Seeing as EAR has been mentioned a lot during this thread:

During the final development phase of the Convergence phono stage it was tested along side an EAR 324. Also it was used into the line inputs of two EAR 912 preamps and tested against the on board phono stage of each 912 with very interesting results.

I'm not sure why you used two 912s, Graham, butI thought I could do a similar test before I sold it and fed my Superline into the line input of the 912 with the other arm/cart. into one of the in-built ph/stages.

Total incompatibility ! The Superline, which I'd expected to shunt out sufficient signal to effect a reasonable comparison, didn't. Or, the line ins of the 912 have lower sensitivity than normal (don't have the spec's to check). I was using a crude DIN to RCA adapter, but can't think that a factor, as I use it with TV to good effect.

Anyway, for whatever reason, the two were insufficiently compatible to elicit a quality listen. My 01 also needs a boost, but at least sounds as good as, if not better than, through the 552.

What was interesting in your comparison, b.t.w.?

 

[RossB]

I'm not sure what Graham found interesting, but I currently own a Tron Seven (entry level version) and used to own an EAR 324 some years ago. The Tron, while less versatile, is comfortably better in terms of sound quality and musicality. (The same is also true of the Superline/Supercap and Trilogy 907 I also currently own.) I haven't heard the 912 so can't compare it.