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P.G.A.H. VOIGT: A Great Audio Inventor

Encouraged by Eguth, I have prepared this photoseries of my project of restoring a set of Voigt corner horns. Perhaps this will be useful for showing a little about how these horns were built and looked like.
You will see S/N 44 of 1936, first sold to the BBC and S/N 157 of 1938, first sold to a Mr. Bendelow, according to a copy of the original books.
They are remarkably similar in build and material.
Perhaps this would be a good time to explain about the scale of Mr. P.G.A.H. Voigts production: Eguth has already detailed a biography and the production of various text, patents and advertising, but of course production of goods was the crankshaft of it all.
Mr. Voigts books shows the following remarkable figures for production of Domestic horns alone: 1934 / 5 pcs., 1935 / 46 pcs., 1936 / 61 pcs., 1937 / 72 pcs., 1938 / 75 pcs., 1939 / 47 pcs., 1940 / 12 pcs., 1941-46 / 0 pcs., 1947 / 12 pcs., 1948 / 12 pcs., 1949 / 12 pcs., 1950 / 6 pcs.
Considering the size and the complexity of the Domestic horn, and also considering that each horn was delivered with a massive 14 kg speaker unit (see my photosession of the Voigt Light coil twin), it is clear that Voigt Patents made a remarkable achievement for its time. Imagine selling more than 1 of these horns pr week, during the peak years, even today !
Now add to this all the other items also sold by Voigt at the time, e.g. 2- and 4 ft. straight horns for cinema use, outdoor versions etc.
Sales too, was made entirely by Voigt himself, assisted by a Mr. Redgrave, not wasting money on expensive exhibitions, but thru homeparties very similar to "Tupperware's" today, driving cross-country, carrying a 6-foot, 75 kg. speaker in and out of peoples homes !
Lowther sold 43 pcs. (during the coorporation, before the "merger"), BBC bought 4 pcs., Baird bought 12 pcs.
It seems Mr. Voigt signed S/N 28 out for himself !
Have fun. (Double-click at 1. "Stripping", then click "next")

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65583803@N03/sets/
 
I have taken a photo of a house in Church Rd., Upper Norwood, next to the one where Voigt lived from about 1929 (see page 2).
 
I now have an apparently previously unpublished photograph of Voigt. I have posted this on page 1. I have commented on its provenence below the photo.
 
UCL has unearthed records of Voigt's studies during 1921-2. And also a memo relating to his bequest. I have added these to the thread on p.1.
 
I have posted a photograph of Paul and Ida Voigt. This was taken in 1953 a few years after the Voigts arrived in Canada.

You will be able to see the photo on page 2 of this thread in Section IX 'Canada'.
 
Two photos of life in Canada have now been posted on page 2. These are: 1) a 50th anniversary, and 2) Paul & Ida with their great nephews
 
After the Howes Memorial speakers were completed and, briefly, exhibited, the whole 'campaign' seemed to run out of steam. But there should be as much info as possible about these remarkable beasts. I've owned a pair; marvellous.
So myself, Peter Skinner,and Les Bartlett (who built the first pair, after having spent many many hours untangling the complexities of the bass cabinet) set about making a second pair. There were minor, but important, ommissions from the bass section of the 'memorial ' pair..cleverly spotted by the eagle-eyed and technically adept David Watson. These missing bits were not on the Voigt plans but were inside actual original cabinets (we have checked six cabinets from 1934 to 1955 ). So the new pair have put that right, and also tightened up on the general precision of the diffusor and reflector (Both taken from originals). We checked accuracy by using a dismantled (very woodwormy) original cabinet, taking well over 100 photos and many more measurements. We also used crucial parts from the original as jigs to ensure accuracy.
The aim is quite simple...to increase public knowledge of the Voigt. We don't want any 'secrets'..everything we have learnt we will share, and ideally, this will help other people build accurate, good, replicas. Although it is not easy. Les Bartlett is a professional cabinet maker, but it has still taken him somewhere around 250 hours to build this second pair....partly because we were so keen to ensure accuracy by learning directly from an original Voigt rather than second-hand info or incomplete plans. The next step is to create a website where we will post all the photos, precise dimensions of the reflector, details of how to make a diffusor and lots of other stuff. The idea is that everything we know will be in the public domain. It's a labour of love..these Voigts are not for sale....but we hope it will help. If I can afford it, I hope to get a professional draughtsman to draw up usuable plans. They are a complex and difficult project.
Anyway, the website should be up by the summer, masses of photos, and plenty of dimensions. My dream is that some other people will be able to make first rate pairs and the Voigt will get a second life ; accidents of history (such as a World War) got in the way of Voigt's great achievement. Maybe a lot of work and the internet can now help.
BTW: I don't know how to post pics on pfm: butg if someone is willing to help add them to this post, , send me your E mail address and I will post you some key pictures, which I think are probably unique in showing details of the construction. I hope it all serves Voigt's memory and adds to the superb academic research shown on this thread. I think we all share a common purpose.
 
paskinn

This sounds as if it would be good to hear more of.

I am puzzled why you want to put further info on a new website rather than contribute to this thread instead.

I am not very computerate, and had to consult Tony L in order to learn how to post my first photos on pfm. pfm does not host images. You need to sign up, first, with some online host. There are, I gather, a number of these.

The host I use is called 'flickr'. It is not difficult to use it, though it may take some time before you become very profficient.

flickr, which is free of charge, enables you to put your images direct on a pfm post, without having to use a link.

More generally, my concern is about proliferation of sources for information and materials. Anyone who has carefully read this thread will have become aware that there are a number of archives that have some material about Voigt. I have not found any of these to be comprehensive. With a view to rectifying this I attempted to persuade the Briitish Library to start a new Voigt archive to which I envisaged new material would be contributed, including rare originals. The library declined to do this, citing lack of funds.

I would encourage you to join flickr (or some other host) and continue with your plans to post more information and pictures on this thread.

Regards,

eguth
 
paskinn

This sounds as if it would be good to hear more of.

I am puzzled why you want to put further info on a new website rather than contribute to this thread instead.

I am not very computerate, and had to consult Tony L in order to learn how to post my first photos on pfm. pfm does not host images. You need to sign up, first, with some online host. There are, I gather, a number of these.

The host I use is called 'flickr'. It is not difficult to use it, though it may take some time before you become very profficient.

flickr, which is free of charge, enables you to put your images direct on a pfm post, without having to use a link.

More generally, my concern is about proliferation of sources for information and materials. Anyone who has carefully read this thread will have become aware that there are a number of archives that have some material about Voigt. I have not found any of these to be comprehensive. With a view to rectifying this I attempted to persuade the Briitish Library to start a new Voigt archive to which I envisaged new material would be contributed, including rare originals. The library declined to do this, citing lack of funds.

I would encourage you to join flickr (or some other host) and continue with your plans to post more information and pictures on this thread.

Regards,

eguth

You make some good points which I must think about .It would be excellent to have a central archive, so that people knew where to go. The idea behind a website was that it might attract more attention, through Google. PFM is splendid but will new people find this thread? Anything to spread knowledge must be good.
As for learning how to post pictures; you are quite right, I have been lazy and must learn. I suppose if we all co-operate we might get something worthwhile done. An archive in the British Museum is surely a worthy aim.
 
It might have seemed somewhat inconsistent of me to have attempted to start yet another archive when I already hold the opinion that there are enough- perhaps too many- already.

However, for one reason or another, I do not wish to deposit some of the original material in my possession onto the existing archives. I think the British Library would be potentially a better general place. I still hope, in future, to persuade them to start an archive. Others, also, may be willing to donate material to the British Library wheras they might hesitate with respect to other archives.

As far as pfm being a prominent enough place that will attract sufficient attention is concerned I point out that since I started this thread it has been first (lst) in the LIST on Google and it has also been first on the list on Bing for quite some time. My only gripe is that both of these start on p.2 of the thread, so readers who are not particularly dedicated miss out on the narration of Voigt’s early days. Perhaps now that I have voiced this gripe readers who read this post (#92) will go back to page 1 when they arrive via Google or Bing.

Also, I believe that putting your material on this thread will bring more members to pfm.

I imagine that new people will find this thread as easily- or more easily- than a website primarily devoted to the design of the Voigt horn.

As there is already a considerable amount on this thread- including your own posts- concerning the design and execution of Voigt’s corner horn I would urge you to seriously consider abandoning your plans for a separate website and devoting all your efforts to this thread instead.
 
I have now posted some rare photographs of Voigt's home in Huff Road, Ontario.

These can be found in the Canada Section (IX) on p.2 of this thread.
 
Well, finally completed the new pair of Voigt Corner Horns. Quite a lot of research and work. Still pondering how to publish to maximum effect. I have registered a website, to be known as 'secrets of the Voigt speaker'. Thought some people might be drawn to the notion of 'secrets'. If anyone wants pics before then, just e-mail me at ''[email protected]'''Sorry to be so slow, but it has been time consuming, and we all have other lives..
 
I only once heard a Voigt corner horn and it was in the entrance lobby of the Heathrow hifi show several years ago (along with lots of other vintage gear which was for display only). I was mighty impressed that something THAT old could sound so good!
 
I only once heard a Voigt corner horn and it was in the entrance lobby of the Heathrow hifi show several years ago (along with lots of other vintage gear which was for display only). I was mighty impressed that something THAT old could sound so good!


Your impression of the sound is interesting, given your general views as expressed on pfm.

I wonder whether you heard the Voigt horn playing mono recordings or stereo ones?

There is a difference. This horn was designed for monaural reproduction.
It is hardly fair to (aurally) judge it with stereo recordings and even more unfair to judge two of these horns used playing stereo recordings.

Voigt never intended his corner horn to be used in this way and never sanctioned such use.
 
Your impression of the sound is interesting, given your general views as expressed on pfm.

I wonder whether you heard the Voigt horn playing mono recordings or stereo ones?

There is a difference. This horn was designed for monaural reproduction.
It is hardly fair to (aurally) judge it with stereo recordings and even more unfair to judge two of these horns used playing stereo recordings.

Voigt never intended his corner horn to be used in this way and never sanctioned such use.

EH? Do explain....

It was mono!
 
The whole criticism of the speaker used for stereo is badly founded, at least according to my ears..and those of others with actual experience, rather than a 'theory.' Stereo describes a signal, not a speaker. The Quad 57 was designed as a mono speaker...so were a whole bunch of American speakers now worshipped..
In fact, many listeners feel the Voigts offer a superbly natural sound stage with obvious stereo imaging.It's not pin-sharp, like a good mini monitor, but is is natural and wholly convincing. A few days ago a few friends and I compared them with mono and stereo recordings....and they worked fine with either.With a nice mono recording the sound was right in the centre, in stereo the sound simply spread out across the stage. In such cases theory should surely bow to experience. ...and as for what Mr Voigt would have said, what are we, a bunch of mediums? The poor man is long dead. I think it fair to point-out that I have used Voigts for thousands of hours, in a variety of locations, and also had the benefit of the advice of many friends who listen to them.Not one single listener has ever, ever, complained at a degredation when the Voigts are used in stereo. In fact I know one guy who now uses a pair of Voigts instead of his £60,000 Rockports.
Which isn't to say everyone will love, or even, like them. No speaker attracts universal praise. But Eguth has presumably heard a pair in stereo at the Howes museum'. Listen, say, to a recording of a man walking across the room, that''s what you hear on the Voigts, just as on other speakers. And a live broadcast of an orchestra is deeply convincing.
Anyone down in the Hastings area is most welcome to come and judge for themselves. See what you think. In the end, it's what you hear that counts, not theory.
 
Haden Boardman summed up the suitability of the Voigt corner horn for stereo nicely.

“…the Voigt corner horn of the 1930s used reflectors to tame the directionality of the driver and spread out the sound…
…perhaps this idea was 100% right for mono but its 100% wrong for stereo…”
Sound Practices, VOL 2:4, issue 8, p.12

Stereo imagery, well recorded, can only be well reproduced using highly directional speakers. This the Voigt corner horn certainly is not.

Voigt never had two corner horns in Canada- as far as I have been able to discover. He was, therefore, unable to carry out his intended stereo experiments.

I believe that what I posted in post #75 (above) is correct.

If a stereo recording has little recorded imagery depth, or you don’t care about imaging, or you can’t hear imagery very well, or your system is inadequate you will be satisfied with semi- stereo or quasi-stereo or shallow imaging.
 
I have agreed to post details, plus a lot of photos, on the blog ''retro vintage modern hi fi'; should be published Saturday July 27th, if all goes well. There should be about 26 photos, including inside shots which, as far as I can tell, show details of the construction never properly shown before. If anyone wants more info, E mail me directly, although I will have a website before the end of summer. Anything to promote more interest in the Voigt speakers.
As for the comments above about my ignorance, inadequate hearing, poor equipment or whatever, Eguth seems to have forgotten that I have several times offered to let him listen and judge for himself.He has never bothered.
We all know that 'stereo' is a compromise, not a perfect system for capturing spacial qualities. It can't do height or depth.You would need more channels. As such it is an imperfect system, compounded by the lack of care in recording. Listeners have a wide variety of preferences, including omnis, semi omnis, front and rear reflectors, dipoles and the traditional speaker. There is no 'correct' set of preferences because we have no 'correct' recording and reproduction system. Let alone a 'perfect' room. All is compromise. Many people find the Voigts unusually natural and convincing. Whether Eguth would agree we can't know, because he has never taken the trouble to actually listen. Pity really. We should all be pulling together, not taking pot shots.....
 


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