Oh Britain, what have you done (part XXII)?

[Philim]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/61e4faea-cac5-11e7-aa33-c63fdc9b8c6c

Article from ft which tm must have read....
Whatever we decide now our relationship with the EU will never be the same. If we stay we will not retain the benefits we have today and we will continue to slowly die but with less benefits and influence. In some ways the damage is done.
Could brexit be beneficial for the UK? Not in the short term. We will create uncertainty, our financial market will weaken (some may be pleased about that), we will go further into debt etc.
To recover however we will be forced to face up to some of the problems we currently face and deal with them. Low productivity, lack of investment, lack of future thought. It may be the bitter pill that we need to swallow.
The one problem is that we have a no one to deliver it with any business acumen. The Tories are too weak. We have a looming threat of jc. Any who thinks public ownership will solve our issues must never have worked in that environment. Other than that there is a void.

 

[Philim]

You may have to pick it yourself.

True. We have no unemployed (yet)

 

[merlin]

The Tell Lie Graph really doesn't do irony does it?

Brought to you by those fine people who like to intimidate any MP who dares to challenge their vision of a hard Brexit.

As for Gerald Howarth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Howarth



He's a card isn't he?

He should be hanged, drawn and quartered with parts sent to each corner of the land via ParcelForce.

As I might add should any idiot writing for rags like that claiming to be a patriot.

We fought a war on European soil in order to eliminate an imminent threat to the UK. We died for our Country. It seems many are expected to make that sacrifice again. I doubt Gerald will be one of them.

 

[NeilR]

Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.

Hey Mike,

Whoever complained should be glad that you didn't use the village of ****er in Graubünden, Switzerland as your avatar.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/****er

 

[stevec67]

I've bought 20,000 sq yards* of corrugated iron- I'm going to take the forced rhubarb market.

*thats right, imperial measures are back.

We need to talk. I have a house and garden that is within the Rhubarb Triangle of West Yorkshire. With your corrugated iron shed materials and my location we are in prime position to set up a Yorkshire Rhubarb production facility producing rhubarb that we can register as a product of Protected Geographical Origin and sell at a premium. This PGO will be defended by European regulations that will protect this traditional British product from foreign comp...oh bollocks.

 

[stevec67]

Hey Mike,

Whoever complained should be glad that you didn't use the town name of ****er in Graubünden, Switzerland as your avatar.

Or indeed Fanny Hands Lane in Lincolnshire, or Tickle Cock Bridge in Castleford.

 

[timola]

Corr! The doom and gloom going on this thread is unbelievable.

I thought I'd have a quick read and did expect pessimism, but the level is off the scale.

I can't wait for a hard Brexit. The EU is holding the UK and other member states back, the sooner we are free the better.

This thread reminds me of 'The Stockholm Syndrome'.

I just put this post out there...I know I'm in the minority of 1 on PFM and I won't be defending my position as I agree with you, I have no facts on my side.

I just can't stand the EU bureaucrats and can't believe their mean mindedness. What horrible people to deal with.

 

[wacko]

Offer upped to £40 billion conditional on an 'acceptable' transition period and a 'good' free trade deal. Should have offered that 6 months ago when Merkel still had some clout. Final bill will include a ton of Yorkshire Rhubarb and a few other bits and bobs.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I just can't stand the EU bureaucrats and can't believe their mean mindedness. What horrible people to deal with.

I know this is a position often put out there by Brexitiers, but I don't understand the basis for it. A little flesh on the bones of this assertion would be of value to this thread, IMHO, Timola. So if you have anything to add, I for one would be glad to learn what it is.

 

[wacko]

Corr! The doom and gloom going on this thread is unbelievable.
I thought I'd have a quick read and did expect pessimism, but the level is off the scale.
I can't wait for a hard Brexit. The EU is holding the UK and other member states back, the sooner we are free the better.
This thread reminds me of 'The Stockholm Syndrome'.
I just put this post out there...I know I'm in the minority of 1 on PFM and I won't be defending my position as I agree with you, I have no facts on my side.
I just can't stand the EU bureaucrats and can't believe their mean mindedness. What horrible people to deal with.

The view from the EU is that it is the UK that has been selfish/mean minded. Inept Government (austerity/infrastructure, inability to control non-EU and EU immigration) and xenophobia creating a UK First mantra that will deliver a lose/lose result that will weaken Europe economically and politically for decades.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

My suspicion is that the feeling in Europe right now must be something along these lines:

"These are the rules. You know these are the rules. They were always the rules. You also know we will stick to the rules. So, why all this faux surprise and shock?"

 

[stevec67]

I can't wait for a hard Brexit. The EU is holding the UK and other member states back, the sooner we are free the better.

I hope that you are right. I wish that I shared your optimism. I don't, and I am preparing the ground to leave the UK if necessary. I don't want to, having lived in Europe I'd rather be in the UK, but I have to make a living.

I just put this post out there...I know I'm in the minority of 1 on PFM

No, eternumviti is a leaver with a number of cohesive arguments as to why leaving is the best solution.

I just can't stand the EU bureaucrats and can't believe their mean mindedness. What horrible people to deal with.

Compared to Gove, BJ and Davis? Really?

 

[richardg]

My suspicion is that the feeling in Europe right now must be something along these lines:

"These are the rules. You know these are the rules. They were always the rules. You also know we will stick to the rules. So, why all this faux surprise and shock?"

In Germany that feels like the norm to me. To the point that nobody even talks about it. They don't even mention it to me.

Except....http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42049565

 

[merlin]

Hey Mike,

Whoever complained should be glad that you didn't use the village of ****er in Graubünden, Switzerland as your avatar.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/****er

I did suggest that to the moderator - as I went there and had a picture of the sign too. To get there IIRC you go through Tunnel Crap. There's also the "Romantikweg" near the Scheidegg that gets you to Pfanni and I also suggested the Mo Chit trainstaton in BKK and so many more that I visited on my travels. It appears however, that such a SOH is deemed to be "childish" so I had no wish to offend. I could fill a thread with photos I have taken of places I've visited with risque names but I imagine it would be against the AUP to be so puerile

 

[The Far North]

I can't wait for a hard Brexit. The EU is holding the UK and other member states back, the sooner we are free the better.

This thread reminds me of 'The Stockholm Syndrome'.

I just put this post out there...I know I'm in the minority of 1 on PFM and I won't be defending my position as I agree with you, I have no facts on my side.

I just can't stand the EU bureaucrats and can't believe their mean mindedness. What horrible people to deal with.

Funnily enough, there might be some of us on here who see your position as being far more like the Stockholm Syndrome than ours. I think you've definitely nailed Brexit as a belief system, rather than one based on facts or reasoned arguments, and that's a perfectly reasonable stance for you to have.

 

[MVV]

Well Timmypops, if you think we are gloomy just take a look at reality:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...dget-zombie-state-civil-war-brexit-fantasists

"Hammond’s talk of our “world-leading” robotics looks plain delusional when you see the graph showing us last – yes, bottom – in robots per manufacturing worker – with Slovenia, Slovakia, Italy, Spain and everyone else miles ahead. BT Openreach has just delayed by another three years its pledge on minimum standard connectivity to all. We are the zombie state.

The OECD’s clinical analysis of the UK shows just how fantastically awry is the vaunting, nationalistic arrogance of our politicians and press. Growth, near the bottom of the league, may see forecasts lowered tomorrow, again. Our under-30s are near the bottom for technical qualifications, with low literacy and numeracy, while our research and development falls below the OECD average. Our low corporation tax encourages companies neither to invest – they sit on shedloads of capital – nor to upskill."

BTW I sincerely hope you are right and the experts are wrong.

 

[merlin]

My suspicion is that the feeling in Europe right now must be something along these lines:

"These are the rules. You know these are the rules. They were always the rules. You also know we will stick to the rules. So, why all this faux surprise and shock?"

Agreed. I would also imagine they are getting to the point of just telling our government to either grow up or **** off. It must grate immensely that they have to debate with such imbeciles. HM Government are acting like trolls on an internet forum.

 

[merlin]

Funnily enough, there might be some of us on here who see your position as being far more like the Stockholm Syndrome than ours. I think you've definitely nailed Brexit as a belief system, rather than one based on facts or reasoned arguments, and that's a perfectly reasonable stance for you to have.

I'm not keen on Governments existing on belief systems however - it never ends well.

 

[stephen bennett]

I assume the Telegraph et. al. will be calling for us to leave the UN next.

Stephen

 

[stevec67]

My suspicion is that the feeling in Europe right now must be something along these lines:

"These are the rules. You know these are the rules. They were always the rules. You also know we will stick to the rules. So, why all this faux surprise and shock?"

The German Minister for SomethingOrOther was on R4 this morning even talking about the EU in terms of leaving a club and expecting to retain benefits. Someone should tell Eternum to put him straight.