Nytech Audio / Ion Systems Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter deltaunit
- Start date
I agree with Mudlark, the casework did let the amps down. From an electronic design point of view they were good though. They chose to use their own transistor regulators and capacitor multipliers rather than go down the Naim road of using IC regulators. This decision gave them the edge in terms of sound quality and improvement potential IMHO but at the expense of a more complex circuit and build. The wiring inside the cases to the multiple boards in a tight space was a tricky job in the factory. The build costs must have been higher as a result and dug into their margins. Check out this picture of the CP112:
There were a multitude of other clever design tricks in the Nytechs and Ions. On some of the power amps they had two feedback networks, one either side of the output capacitor. That made the output cap more linear in the circuit and is arguably a better design choice than having a direct coupled split rail amp circuit like the Naim one. I have modified some Ion Obelisks by adding this second feedback loop around the output cap to good effect. The evidence is here:
There are other real improvements that can be made to the already well designed Nytech/Ion power/pre amp circuits that do nothing but develop its qualities further. That's why I like these amps so much. The only problem is fittting the improvements into the case - which is why Ion themselves came up with the piggybacked power supply option. Some guys have admired the design so much they have done a total rebuild:
I do have some gripes from a circuit design point of view though. The early Nytech/Ion Obelisks had poor thermal management in their power amp. This was sorted in later versions but I have mended three that had gone into thermal runaway and blown fuses and output trannies. They were skimping on heatsinks and it caught them out a bit. I've got the picies to prove it. I get the feeling that they briefly lost the understanding of their own design, possibly when some key individual left. There is evidence that they tried to copy and scale down earlier circuits and misunderstood how they worked for a while when the Obeisk came out. They sorted the glaring errors but never fully replicated all the clever bits from the Nytech era.
What I hope to do one day is design an amp that incorporates all the best bits of the Nytech and Ion amps, and have it all on a single circuit board in a decent case. That would be a winner.
John
This is exactly what I want to do in my thread http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=116701&page=3
Hopefully you can step in ......
Like others I think the weakest part of these amps is the casework, it's very cheap and leads to reliability problems through overheating. The power supplies are probably the next weakest part, they are rather small.
I ought to rebuild my remaining receiver in a decent case.
I ought to rebuild my remaining receiver in a decent case.
.... my new box I think will be to small and to simple.
Nytecholdie
pfm Member
Hi Spinner
Connect 1 to 3 and 4 to 5 - Dont need to worry about pin 2 (The middle one
IE
2
4------5
1----------3
Hopefully this will get you up and running
Connect 1 to 3 and 4 to 5 - Dont need to worry about pin 2 (The middle one
IE
2
4------5
1----------3
Hopefully this will get you up and running
Thanks for reply Nytecholdie, Amp now warmed up and playing, Must say i"m very impressed , Nice clear sweet sound just got to master the tone controls now
Dear Bob,
Russ Andrews used to have a HiFi shop in Edinburgh in the late 70's.
He was also a director of Nytech.
He commissioned the tuner from Nytech and it was built into his own chassis. The tuner was made by Nytech for him.
The Nytech tuner was also put into the A&R Cambridge chassis for them.
The HiFi business at that time was remarkably incestuous. REGA,Linn,NAIM. Nytech all shared and helped each other with their different skill bases.
If you look at REGA, Magnum A.C. and TOCA they also shared common parentage.
You also had ARC as well. I remember having prototype Nytech amps active x overs and speakers in my flat, as my flatmate was a designer for Nytech. I at the time was a staunch QUAD valve and ESL enthusiast. So the listening comparisons were against my complete Garrard 301 ,3012 SME, Decca SC4E, QUAD complete 22 valve system and ESL 57's. I t was interesting to do the comparison at home in the flat.
I preferred the QUAD system, it was so much more musical. I even took the amps and speakers to the Dem Room at Nytech to put up against the NAIM Linn Isobarik tri amp set up and the Nytech pre, active x over tri amp prototype system that was being developed at that time.
The Nytech tuner was excellent.
David
Russ Andrews used to have a HiFi shop in Edinburgh in the late 70's.
He was also a director of Nytech.
He commissioned the tuner from Nytech and it was built into his own chassis. The tuner was made by Nytech for him.
The Nytech tuner was also put into the A&R Cambridge chassis for them.
The HiFi business at that time was remarkably incestuous. REGA,Linn,NAIM. Nytech all shared and helped each other with their different skill bases.
If you look at REGA, Magnum A.C. and TOCA they also shared common parentage.
You also had ARC as well. I remember having prototype Nytech amps active x overs and speakers in my flat, as my flatmate was a designer for Nytech. I at the time was a staunch QUAD valve and ESL enthusiast. So the listening comparisons were against my complete Garrard 301 ,3012 SME, Decca SC4E, QUAD complete 22 valve system and ESL 57's. I t was interesting to do the comparison at home in the flat.
I preferred the QUAD system, it was so much more musical. I even took the amps and speakers to the Dem Room at Nytech to put up against the NAIM Linn Isobarik tri amp set up and the Nytech pre, active x over tri amp prototype system that was being developed at that time.
The Nytech tuner was excellent.
David
rdmaidment
pfm Member
Russ Andrews also had a dealership in Poole, Dorset. This would have been in 1980.
John Chapman took over the dealership which remained until John went to Ion to be their production manager.
Richard
John Chapman took over the dealership which remained until John went to Ion to be their production manager.
Richard
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
David
Thanks for that.
Interesting to hear your experience. My memory of my ARC 101s is that they would have most definitely been the limiting factor in any comparison, especially against kit as good as you had!
My CTA252XD is still doing a great job for me, I just need to get someone who knows how to open the damn thing to change one of the meter bulbs that has gone. Mine even has the tinted perspex hinged cover that fixed via self adhesive pads to cover the sliders when in operation.
Nytecholdie
pfm Member
Hi Bob McC
If you're brave enough to have a go heres how to change the bulb - DONT EVEN TRY THIS if your not mechanically minded and can re-assemble something you've taken apart
Disconnect everything (especially power) - Pull off all the slider knobs
Flip the unit upside down - Locate and undo the four screws securing the plastic base and remove the base.
You should now see a screw in each corner of the upper case - Remove all four and flip the unit right way up again
Carefully slide the upper case upwards to reveal a "naked nytech" - Be very careful not to damage the tuner pots - They are VERY fragile and probably imposible to source these days
If you're lucky and its one of the outside bulbs that have gone then you can just about reach them without taking the top frame off. Earlier 252s used screw lamps whilst the later ones used a push fit lamp - Biggest problem is I cant remeber the lamp voltage or current. (Hopefully someone on the forum could help here if its not written on the lamp)
If its the middle one ore you want to change all three to make sure that they're all equal brightness then you have a real fun time ahead. Its at this point you need to decide if you should really go on or not!
There are four self tapping screws that hold on the meter/pot board assembly 2 at the top above the meters and 2 at the bottom by the pot board and headphone sockets - Remove them all.
VERY CAREFULLY ease the assembly upwards - There are a whole pile of molex pins on the tuner board (in the bottom) which connect into sockets in the switch boards and the preamp board (the one vertically mounted underneath the meters). Theres one flying lead as well which will become obvious when you lift the unit free.
Put the whole unit to one side (you wont be able to completely detach it because the power cable to and from the power switch is hard wired
At this point you should have easy access to the lamps and after all that hard work its probably worth changing all of the lamps anyway.
Re assembly is pretty much the reverse of the above but dont forget to re-connect the flying lead first and be carefull to make sure that ALL the molex connectors mate up properly, especially the ones for the switch boards.
Likewise be very careful when you put the top case back on - Its at this point the tuner pots get broken. You'll know when you've done it right because the top case sits properly on the chassis and you can put the screws back in.
Finally put the base back on and give it a try
Good luck!
If you're brave enough to have a go heres how to change the bulb - DONT EVEN TRY THIS if your not mechanically minded and can re-assemble something you've taken apart
Disconnect everything (especially power) - Pull off all the slider knobs
Flip the unit upside down - Locate and undo the four screws securing the plastic base and remove the base.
You should now see a screw in each corner of the upper case - Remove all four and flip the unit right way up again
Carefully slide the upper case upwards to reveal a "naked nytech" - Be very careful not to damage the tuner pots - They are VERY fragile and probably imposible to source these days
If you're lucky and its one of the outside bulbs that have gone then you can just about reach them without taking the top frame off. Earlier 252s used screw lamps whilst the later ones used a push fit lamp - Biggest problem is I cant remeber the lamp voltage or current. (Hopefully someone on the forum could help here if its not written on the lamp)
If its the middle one ore you want to change all three to make sure that they're all equal brightness then you have a real fun time ahead. Its at this point you need to decide if you should really go on or not!
There are four self tapping screws that hold on the meter/pot board assembly 2 at the top above the meters and 2 at the bottom by the pot board and headphone sockets - Remove them all.
VERY CAREFULLY ease the assembly upwards - There are a whole pile of molex pins on the tuner board (in the bottom) which connect into sockets in the switch boards and the preamp board (the one vertically mounted underneath the meters). Theres one flying lead as well which will become obvious when you lift the unit free.
Put the whole unit to one side (you wont be able to completely detach it because the power cable to and from the power switch is hard wired
At this point you should have easy access to the lamps and after all that hard work its probably worth changing all of the lamps anyway.
Re assembly is pretty much the reverse of the above but dont forget to re-connect the flying lead first and be carefull to make sure that ALL the molex connectors mate up properly, especially the ones for the switch boards.
Likewise be very careful when you put the top case back on - Its at this point the tuner pots get broken. You'll know when you've done it right because the top case sits properly on the chassis and you can put the screws back in.
Finally put the base back on and give it a try
Good luck!
