Naim
- Thread starter Dee
- Start date
cromodora
foshfishfie
Of course! I think about the poor manufacturers all the time when considering value for money before purchases. My iphone, my TV, my washing machine.
Looking at it your way, I’ve terribly underpaid for most things.
Consider me chastised.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
All members have a profile page. But not all will list their kit on their information tab. Mine is incomplete.
To answer your question, I now use a Pioneer C-21 preamp, which drives either its matching M-22 class A amp into a pair of Yamaha NS-1000M or Dynavector HX-1.2mk2 if I need more power or drive one of my less efficient loudspeakers.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Strange response to a question.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
Washing machines, ipods and tv's are not generally niche audiophile products although you can still find expensive high end ones to impress the neighbours if you wish.
My washing machine does a very good job gawd bless it!
My Naim hifi cost a lot more but I love every penny of it!
My washing machine does a very good job gawd bless it!
My Naim hifi cost a lot more but I love every penny of it!
Natara
pfm Member
I'm not a fan of the 272 but you are understating it a bit, it is a preamp and a network player that can stream Tidal, Spotify and 1,000's of internet stations from across the globe, it also has a pretty decent dac and as you mentioned a FM/DAB module. Wether it is worth £3,600 is another matter.
mykel
Perpetual Hack.
Nait 1 (still have)
32.5/Hi/ 160 (sold and upgraded)
72/TeddyCap/135's
Nat 05
CDX2/TeddyCap
All purchased used except the CDX2 and the TeddyCaps.
This is in over 30 years.
Boy did I ever get sucked onto the Treadmill.
If you have a problem serially upgrading /swapping audio components of any manufacturer then I would suggest you have far more serious issues to address.
32.5/Hi/ 160 (sold and upgraded)
72/TeddyCap/135's
Nat 05
CDX2/TeddyCap
All purchased used except the CDX2 and the TeddyCaps.
This is in over 30 years.
Boy did I ever get sucked onto the Treadmill.
If you have a problem serially upgrading /swapping audio components of any manufacturer then I would suggest you have far more serious issues to address.
gary yeowell
pfm Member
Just another Naim bashing thread, and the usual responses which periodically appear when someone is bored.
In terms of amps I went from Musical Fidelity A1 (1980's class A) to NAC32.5, NAP140, then added a HiCAP, then had the Naim kit Avondaled and refurbished. Then the NAP140 was replaced by a NAP250.2.
Throughout all of these upgrades (except adding the HiCAP) I was thoroughly underwhelmed. By comparison I've changed speakers and heard significant improvements. So I just assumed amp changes were only ever going to yield very small improvements. Read on...
Then I got rid of the Naim DAC, 32.5 and HiCAP and replace them with a Teddy DAC-VC. This was a bigger improvement than any of the previous amp changes described in my opening paragraph. Not quite a speaker sized improvement though. I sold the Naim kit and bought the Teddy brand new and came away with a lot of spare cash.
Then the NAP250.2 was replaced by Teddy MB100 monoblocks. This was another very significant upgrade, in amp upgrade terms. I was able to sell the 250.2 and buy the MB100's brand new and keep some change.
My conclusion: performance to price ratio of second hand Naim gear that I have owned is very low compared to that of brand new Teddy gear. I believe that in buying Naim equipment you are funding dealer profits, marketing campaigns and expensive development of high tech digital products that you may never own. AS a result I believe this prices their gear above other companies who do not follow this traditional business model.
Throughout all of these upgrades (except adding the HiCAP) I was thoroughly underwhelmed. By comparison I've changed speakers and heard significant improvements. So I just assumed amp changes were only ever going to yield very small improvements. Read on...
Then I got rid of the Naim DAC, 32.5 and HiCAP and replace them with a Teddy DAC-VC. This was a bigger improvement than any of the previous amp changes described in my opening paragraph. Not quite a speaker sized improvement though. I sold the Naim kit and bought the Teddy brand new and came away with a lot of spare cash.
Then the NAP250.2 was replaced by Teddy MB100 monoblocks. This was another very significant upgrade, in amp upgrade terms. I was able to sell the 250.2 and buy the MB100's brand new and keep some change.
My conclusion: performance to price ratio of second hand Naim gear that I have owned is very low compared to that of brand new Teddy gear. I believe that in buying Naim equipment you are funding dealer profits, marketing campaigns and expensive development of high tech digital products that you may never own. AS a result I believe this prices their gear above other companies who do not follow this traditional business model.
Last edited:
Jonboi
Because Music Matters
I bought a CDI/72/hiCap/180/SBL Naim system all new, in the mid nineties and it gave excellent service for around 10 years. The end goal was that I wanted to 'activate' the SBL's, but the cost of doing so was prohibitively expensive at new Naim prices.
Ultimately though, AV came along and took my interest and buying habits in another direction.
I settled on some Sony ES 9000 series kit - DVD player and amp - for surround purposes, only to find down the track that on resolution, musicality and PRaT, the big Sony amp walked it all over the Naim electronics, which after about a year of sitting semi -idle, was all sold off.
It's definitely nicely made gear, and is a lot of fun to listen to in it's musical presentation - but it's also more about being 'impressive' than being accurate or neutral.
To answer the OP, personally, having owned it, I do feel it is somewhat overrated - there is quite a bit of a fanboy element to Naim owners, where apparently the only product worth having if you like music, is Naim -- which is patently untrue, - and the company itself makes similar claims re it's marketing spiel.
There is a certain cult like mystique about Naim which I'm sure the company is happy to cultivate, but in the real world it is marketing speak and little else.
As to value, i think that depends on whether you buy new or second hand, and in which market.
Having heard it, I would say the statement amplifier is the most overrated, overhyped, and poor value for money HiFi product that I've ever heard. Period.
That's not to say it's bad. Far from it - one of the best amplifiers I've yet to hear in fact. But at A$220,000.00?? One could buy a fully specced brand new E Class Benz and a 3 series BMW as a runabout for good measure at that price. And the system as a whole - Statement, Naim pre and streamer, and the then Ovator 600's was circa A$350,00.00 - that is the price of a brand new, four bedroom home + land in an outer Melbourne suburb.
And I didn't hear anything an A$10,000 Krell + a pair of B&W 800D's wouldn't do, at less than a third of the price.
So yes, whilst I enjoyed my time with Naim, having now heard a lot of different gear and moved on from Naim, whilst I think Naim is very good, I also think it is very overrated and overpriced relatively speaking to other products of equal quality, and equal or better musical satisfaction, available on the market for less cost.
Cheers
Ultimately though, AV came along and took my interest and buying habits in another direction.
I settled on some Sony ES 9000 series kit - DVD player and amp - for surround purposes, only to find down the track that on resolution, musicality and PRaT, the big Sony amp walked it all over the Naim electronics, which after about a year of sitting semi -idle, was all sold off.
It's definitely nicely made gear, and is a lot of fun to listen to in it's musical presentation - but it's also more about being 'impressive' than being accurate or neutral.
To answer the OP, personally, having owned it, I do feel it is somewhat overrated - there is quite a bit of a fanboy element to Naim owners, where apparently the only product worth having if you like music, is Naim -- which is patently untrue, - and the company itself makes similar claims re it's marketing spiel.
There is a certain cult like mystique about Naim which I'm sure the company is happy to cultivate, but in the real world it is marketing speak and little else.
As to value, i think that depends on whether you buy new or second hand, and in which market.
Having heard it, I would say the statement amplifier is the most overrated, overhyped, and poor value for money HiFi product that I've ever heard. Period.
That's not to say it's bad. Far from it - one of the best amplifiers I've yet to hear in fact. But at A$220,000.00?? One could buy a fully specced brand new E Class Benz and a 3 series BMW as a runabout for good measure at that price. And the system as a whole - Statement, Naim pre and streamer, and the then Ovator 600's was circa A$350,00.00 - that is the price of a brand new, four bedroom home + land in an outer Melbourne suburb.
And I didn't hear anything an A$10,000 Krell + a pair of B&W 800D's wouldn't do, at less than a third of the price.
So yes, whilst I enjoyed my time with Naim, having now heard a lot of different gear and moved on from Naim, whilst I think Naim is very good, I also think it is very overrated and overpriced relatively speaking to other products of equal quality, and equal or better musical satisfaction, available on the market for less cost.
Cheers