Naim
- Thread starter Dee
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Tony L
Administrator
Stereo home audio has existed since 1958 so plenty of choice out there - whatever you like is the right answer! I’ve owned all sorts over the years including Naim, Linn, tubes, horns, mini-monitors, giant studio rigs and much in between. All fun. Certainly no Naim-hate from me! If I could have afforded to keep and store everything I’d rather like to have my old 32.5/Hicap/250 boxed up, would be interesting to hear it again!
BobMaximus
pfm Member
Which Naim component are you interested in? There's pre / power / source / speakers to consider. My aunt's name is Olive and she's an amp. I wouldn't consider anyone younger though.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
Naim is good if you like listening to how good your hifi sounds. And you like listening to music.
You can listen to music in various ways (eg ipod or whatever other brands) but there is nothing wrong with Naim.
Only be prepared for some impact upon your wallet once bitten!
You can listen to music in various ways (eg ipod or whatever other brands) but there is nothing wrong with Naim.
Only be prepared for some impact upon your wallet once bitten!
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
If I'm totally honest, the more recent NAIM I've heard.. essentally from the 'post Vereker' era.. is less bad to these ears. But, all of it has a 'character' to me, which really has very little to do with music.
Also, I am still highly offended by any company which releases a product which is supposed to be 'high quality', only to then tell customers that it really needs a Power Supply upgrade, which comprises a pretty basic toroidal transformer and a few bits, in a box.. a 'snip' at a couple of grand. Piss taking of the highest order.
The amps are as above. A couple of the CDPs were pretty good. I've never heard an Aro Tonearm. The speakers I've heard were dire.
Sorry.
Also, I am still highly offended by any company which releases a product which is supposed to be 'high quality', only to then tell customers that it really needs a Power Supply upgrade, which comprises a pretty basic toroidal transformer and a few bits, in a box.. a 'snip' at a couple of grand. Piss taking of the highest order.
The amps are as above. A couple of the CDPs were pretty good. I've never heard an Aro Tonearm. The speakers I've heard were dire.
Sorry.
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
In terms of what they sold for when first released into the market, quite probably. That the NAIT2 has become rather expensive as a second-hand little amplifier, it may not be such good value.
In my experience, and I had lots with the olive range, Naim imbues music with a special character, not unlike what MSG does to Asian dishes or a sharpening filter does to an image. What you gain in contrast and vividness, you lose in subtlety and nuance. I've weaned myself from music additive for at least 15 years, and still enjoy a nightly dose of fine music played on vintage Japanese kit.
Natara
pfm Member
Firstly I would say go and have a listen to some Naim gear at a dealers and find out if you like it. Wether or not you find it over priced is personal to you and everyone else who either decides or not to buy it. Let's put this whole thing into perspective there are people on this forum who think spending a £1,000 on a cartridge another £1,000 on a phono stage and another £1,000 on an arm is justified so perhaps you should ask them if too...
...." you have to pay such a high price in order to enjoy one of life's simple pleasures, that of listening to music?"
My naim credentials are not that long I didn't own a Chrome Bumper in the 80's or Olive in the 90's in fact I didn't own a Naim component until 2010 before that I had different priorities and made do with whatever Richer Sounds had to offer on the most part. When I became a bit more serious about hifi in my 30's I really liked the idea of tube gear and tried it for a couple of years and could tube roll with the best of them but apart from the clarity which was lovely I just couldn't get enough bass for my tastes (now I know different) and that search for better bass lead me to Naim Audio.
Naim doesn't have to be really expensive buying and selling on the used market and trading up slowly over 8 years adding no more than £700 at a time and that only once usually it is around the £3 - 400 mark I have arrived at a 282/300 amp. Admittedly my initial purchase was a new UnitiQute 2 at £1350 but my point is it has cost me no more than I would have spent on this hobby had I gone down a non Naim route because and this is important that is how much I was prepared to spend to get the sound I want and that is a personal choice.
I would also say that I have seen and handled lots and lots of hifi equipment and the build quality and the materials used by Naim Audio are really, really excellent and, and this also is to be applauded apart from the Muso stuff all Naims kit is hand assembled and quality controlled in the UK.
And the answer to one of your original questions....
.."do you have to pay such a high price in order to enjoy one of life's simple pleasures, that of listening to music?"
is no you don't you can buy a £30 radio and enjoy music I do everyday at work.
...." you have to pay such a high price in order to enjoy one of life's simple pleasures, that of listening to music?"
My naim credentials are not that long I didn't own a Chrome Bumper in the 80's or Olive in the 90's in fact I didn't own a Naim component until 2010 before that I had different priorities and made do with whatever Richer Sounds had to offer on the most part. When I became a bit more serious about hifi in my 30's I really liked the idea of tube gear and tried it for a couple of years and could tube roll with the best of them but apart from the clarity which was lovely I just couldn't get enough bass for my tastes (now I know different) and that search for better bass lead me to Naim Audio.
Naim doesn't have to be really expensive buying and selling on the used market and trading up slowly over 8 years adding no more than £700 at a time and that only once usually it is around the £3 - 400 mark I have arrived at a 282/300 amp. Admittedly my initial purchase was a new UnitiQute 2 at £1350 but my point is it has cost me no more than I would have spent on this hobby had I gone down a non Naim route because and this is important that is how much I was prepared to spend to get the sound I want and that is a personal choice.
I would also say that I have seen and handled lots and lots of hifi equipment and the build quality and the materials used by Naim Audio are really, really excellent and, and this also is to be applauded apart from the Muso stuff all Naims kit is hand assembled and quality controlled in the UK.
And the answer to one of your original questions....
.."do you have to pay such a high price in order to enjoy one of life's simple pleasures, that of listening to music?"
is no you don't you can buy a £30 radio and enjoy music I do everyday at work.
venton
pfm Member
Naim gear is very well made. I bought my setup in 1994 (180 amp, 72 pre and hicap plus cdi player).
That's still what I've got and it's going strong.
When I bought it, I literally knew nothing about hifi, and chose it purely by listening to various makes at a dealer.
Overpriced? No, because I'll never get rid of it.
Cheaper alternatives? Yes of course, loads. In my youth sone of the most enjoyable music was listening on shitty speakers in my Vauxhall Viva..you can enjoy music on anything.
That's still what I've got and it's going strong.
When I bought it, I literally knew nothing about hifi, and chose it purely by listening to various makes at a dealer.
Overpriced? No, because I'll never get rid of it.
Cheaper alternatives? Yes of course, loads. In my youth sone of the most enjoyable music was listening on shitty speakers in my Vauxhall Viva..you can enjoy music on anything.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
That's all very well, but this is a hi-fi forum and if you guys are going to spend pages and pages discussing £30 radios, then I'm out of here!
Mr Underhill
pfm Member
I enjoyed and owned CB up to 32.5/Hicap/250, and still have my ARO'd and Geddoned LP12.
I never got along with the Olive.
I felt Classic was a move in a much better direction.
The dealer support can be excellent.
VFM? Eye of the beholder.
In my case I never thought Naim was 'the best'. I moved away because of the conveyor belt business model, but I have friends who own great Naim systems, they just sound rather different to mine; and there is certain music I prefer on their systems.
M
I never got along with the Olive.
I felt Classic was a move in a much better direction.
The dealer support can be excellent.
VFM? Eye of the beholder.
In my case I never thought Naim was 'the best'. I moved away because of the conveyor belt business model, but I have friends who own great Naim systems, they just sound rather different to mine; and there is certain music I prefer on their systems.
M
Eyebroughty
JohnC
Naim is not highly priced if you look at some other manufacturers equipment, it does what it is meant to do, play music, just like an LP12 is a turntable that is used to play vinyl.
There are many who dislike both Naim or the LP12 but they both fulfill a requirement and give enjoyment to those that like what they do.
Also most Naim gear can be serviced and usually have a high resale value, unlike some of the other manufacturers, something that should be taken into account.
In answer to your question are there cheaper alternatives, of course, just like a car, you can buy expensive or cheap, they both do the same task.
There are many who dislike both Naim or the LP12 but they both fulfill a requirement and give enjoyment to those that like what they do.
Also most Naim gear can be serviced and usually have a high resale value, unlike some of the other manufacturers, something that should be taken into account.
In answer to your question are there cheaper alternatives, of course, just like a car, you can buy expensive or cheap, they both do the same task.
mega lord
Centre tapped
My opinion on this is that Naim is over priced and overrated (for me). I like the CD players (I have one) but the amplifiers less so.
The alternatives are too many to list here. If you like the Naim sound then Exposure might do it for you or some Avondale modified Olive gear.
Buy second hand then it does not have to cost the earth.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
It's simple - If you don't like what Naim kit does (and I've yet to establish exactly what the "Naim Sound" precisely is, it varies depending what setup you're referring to) then it's expensive and overpriced. If you can't afford it, it's expensive and overpriced. To me, their digital stuff, e.g. NDS, nDAC, is expensive and overpriced because I prefer other kit, specifically Chord and my DIY Twisted Pear DACs. Doesn't make them bad or horrid, they're still excellent. Don't judge it on what you've heard at shows, or even what you often hear in dealer's demos. You can improve the sound quality of certain Naim components by adding better power supplies, but you're not forced to do this; if you're content with what you've got then don't try one. it's pretty futile folks banging on about stuff that's "better value" and "sounds miles/considerably/night-and-day better". I've listened to a considerable number of these alternatives, owned a fair few before moving to Naim, and I personally don't like the ones I've heard (I won't insult folks' tastes by trotting out the usual negative hyperbole) but let's face it, no one could have possibly listened to all the huge number of permutations available to hear (it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who've apparently heard my system setup).
seagull
Seabird flavour member
I've had Naim kit for nearly 35 years(!). My original power amp is still in my system, the pre-amp (a NAC42) is on the subs bench in case my current pre (NAC72) is ever poorly.
It originally cost me over a month's wages but as I still have it playing music then - no it's not over priced (not all of it anyway).
Decent set-ups can be bought relatively cheaply second hand (and sold on at little or no loss if you don't like the sound).
It originally cost me over a month's wages but as I still have it playing music then - no it's not over priced (not all of it anyway).
Decent set-ups can be bought relatively cheaply second hand (and sold on at little or no loss if you don't like the sound).
In the very early days ( bolt top) Naim was the best, IMHO. I had a very early bolt top 12/snaps/ 250 and I still miss it. But it needed servicing and after servicing it didn’t sound as good. I now own Dynavector amps which, allegedly, never need servicing.
I owned a lot of mid period Olive stuff and frankly never enjoyed it much.
I haven’t heard the new stuff so can’t comment but it seems very expensive.
In my place of business I have two sets of speakers driven by a Nait 2 and Nait 3 and to be fair they sound very nice . Contrary to received opinion I think the 3 sounds the best and I wouldn’t mind one for a second system at home. I liked the Naim CD3.5 a lot more than the CDX. Not sure what message that sends.
I owned a lot of mid period Olive stuff and frankly never enjoyed it much.
I haven’t heard the new stuff so can’t comment but it seems very expensive.
In my place of business I have two sets of speakers driven by a Nait 2 and Nait 3 and to be fair they sound very nice . Contrary to received opinion I think the 3 sounds the best and I wouldn’t mind one for a second system at home. I liked the Naim CD3.5 a lot more than the CDX. Not sure what message that sends.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
The price is indeed ridiculous, especially for their older amps, and all the more so for it not reflecting anything about the content! It's certainly not spent on R&D as the circuitry was bog standard for 1972 or so, which is when the designs were copied from elsewhere with just the odd tweak here and there. They are completely obsolete and a lesson in bad practice in audio design in general (apart from that they do put some effort into good grounding, which is very important). A car analogy would be to take a '72' car with push rod operated overhead valves, cross-ply tyres, carburettor and distributor and dress it up to look modern before offering it as a rival to a Lamborghini or similar... and at Lambo prices!