Julf
Facts are our friends
Are you saying one needs paranormal or psychic abilities to be able to tell a difference between cables in a double blind ABX test?
Moving from Naim
- Thread starter Octave Doctor
- Start date
Are you saying one needs paranormal or psychic abilities to be able to tell a difference between cables in a double blind ABX test?
bob atherton
pfm Member
Hi Keith
It's an emotional, soulful thing, probably can't be measured 'technically'.
It's like a musician who is 'communicating' more with their performance one night but maybe not the next.
Different venues and the technically inferior venue might just be the one with the better communicative performance.
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
It's an amplifier Bob ,it isn't creating music it is reproducing it, if it sounds different to other solid state amps, that difference will be evident in its measurements.
Keith
Keith
venton
pfm Member
No, but apparently it was the condition to get the million. Ridiculous obviously.
Julf
Facts are our friends
Yes, being able to tell a difference between cables in a double blind ABX test was the requirement. Is that ridiculous?
mattgbell
Help the elderly and unwell!
How do you know that the failure to communicate the music lies with the amp and not the speakers?
MVV
pfm Member
Or your neck, perhaps it lies with your neck? Get someone to Karate it then you will have a sore neck and all amps will sound the same. Or a neck brace, either way what you need is a level playing field.
MVV
pfm Member
Don't think of it a derailed, think of it as a phase it's going through.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I haven't read the thread, so just responding to this OP.
There is life after Naim. I bought my first Naim amp, a 42.5/110 in 1985 and finished up with an all Naim system. Sometime later I moved it all on and went down the diy route with a valve amp, passive TVC and diy speakers, which gave me just as much if not more enjoyment from my music. I tried separate dacs and then one day decided to try streaming. I had a lot of boxes to move on by then, most of the diy stuff went and there was life after that too. I'm now back with a single Naim box (Unitiqute) and RPi and the same diy speakers. Enjoying the music just continues.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
That was when I picked up a used 42.5/110. Made my large Leak 2075s sound better than through my Quad valved kit, strangely. Managed to also power 15 ohm LS3/5As in my office. A 160, 32.5, then 250, then 82, then 135s, 52 and 552 followed. Nice journey, but now history.
bob atherton
pfm Member
Keith
It's a bit like the Pink v Linn dems I used to do back in the 80's.
I'm quite prepared to believe the Pink was the more accurate to the original recording player, especially when listening to classical music, but the Linn, in comparison grooved like a bastard.
No doubt the Linn was adding or leaving out something along the way , but, especially on musical with a strong groove it was the no-brainer if foot tapping, and getting into the music was one's bag.
If a system is 'working' musically you want to listen to it, quite a lot of the time.
If a system is not 'working, no matter how transparent to the original recording then it wont get played very much.
In my world my hi-fi has to deliver on a musical, foot tapping, grooving, captivating, enthralling, horizon-widening, soul-satisfying level. This is how I judge any piece of kit primarily, with ease of use, build quality, aesthetics etc coming in as a secondary consideration.
I have spent plenty of time in recording studios on both sides of the glass to know how a recording sounds, only to be often ruined at the mastering stage.
I actually don't like systems that sound like a studio or the band being in the room; to me that is quite an onslaught.
What floats my boat are systems where all the musical signals are there that trigger the brain into musical enjoyment and immersion without the relentless dissection and precision of near field monitors.
not into it, don't bother the least, but music.
the visceral, contagious ,live sound.
Plenty of brands out there shouty in less than perfect recordings and incapable of expressing either the venue or the genres.
No veils ,n hardening just transparent sound. Maybe not the most detailed, however with naim it's a feast all the time.
It's educational.
One should try that if not into listing the gear.
or spend way a lot more and get FM acoustics.
Jonboi
Because Music Matters
My first introduction to fully active speakers was when auditioning and then purchasing my Naim SBL's - which I heard in passive mode with various Naim amp combinations, and eventually fully active - again with all Naim kit.
The jump in performance going fully active almost made the SBL's sound like another speaker on a much higher plane of performance again.
Indeed, back in those days, an fully active SBL setup with a four pack of 135's was an audiophiles wet dream for many a Naim aficionado.
Whether it be Naim, PMC, ATC etc, the consensus of engineering opinion is that for a given speaker, and all other things being equal, active operation is always superior to passive on technical and sonic grounds.
But to extrapolate from that, that each and every fully active speaker design is going to be fabulous is erroneous. Lots of other things come in to play, obviously.
However, when searching for a new speaker to replace/update my SBL's, I also wanted to get right away from the whole mix and match, trial and error, hit and miss, attempts at matching up a system from disparate components at a retail level.
As such, a fully active speaker system with onboard amps felt the right way for me to go.
I don't think it gave me expectation bias though - what I ended up choosing was something I would never have even contemplated during my Naim ownership years.
A friend has had high end Naim systems feeding Sonus Faber Amati Homages for over 10 years. Never thought he would move away from Naim, but he now has Vitus for his 2 channel (not sure what models). He is like the cat that got the cream! I am looking forward to hearing it - he loves the 3-D sound staging.
Nic P
Nic P
Octave Doctor
Searching for the Spark
That's what I like about Vitus- the 3-D sound staging...it really is impressive.
S-Man
StrivingON
Fair enough.
My experience was a bit different. I owned Linn Ninkas and although they could sound very good in active mode, they also had some issues which meant some music was better in passive mode. Eventually I reverse engineered the active XO boards and it showed that they had added 10dB boot at 50Hz (IIRC). I couldn't see any attempt to add BSC. I did try defeating the LF boost bbut that sounded too lean. In the end I concluded Linn had done a very strange "bodge" on the electronic crossover.
In addition to that, in the old days at the Heathrow hifi show I remember being quite impressed by the basic Naim (+LP12) system but the 6 X NAP135 fully active system was very brittle and aggressive sounding.
I now run a semi active system. Active XO between LF system and two way "satellite" speakers which use a passive crossover. This is a very, very good solution.