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Moving from Naim

Discussion in 'audio' started by Octave Doctor, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. Octave Doctor

    Octave Doctor Searching for the Spark

    I've ordered the RI-100 (with DAC)...I should receive the amp in a few weeks...hopefully. Do you use the mains cable that comes with the Vitus or do you use another cable?
  2. Sloop John B

    Sloop John B pfm Member

    I suppose the marketing department has to earn its keep but copy like this would make me a bit nervous.

    You have heard it before ordering haven't you?

  3. Sloop John B

    Sloop John B pfm Member

    This really is amazing stuff

    Where can I buy one of these?

  4. Sloop John B

    Sloop John B pfm Member

    Bit disappointed with the Masterpiece series though

  5. Jonboi

    Jonboi Because Music Matters

    It always amazes me how so many audiophiles are blind to expectation bias, confirmation bias, and ignore the well known and researched aspects of how we hear and perceive sound - i.e. psycho-acoustics.

    As far as I know, the Richard Clark amplifier challenge still stands - and no one has won the money - a comfy $10k

    Better yet is the James Randi challenge - the sacred cow of cables. Here you can win 1 million dollars if you can prove that mega expensive cables sound better than relatively 'normal' Monster cables. Again, no-one has won the money.

    I've personally dallied with different cables - construction and cost - and was quite sure I heard noticeable differences. But as soon as I introduced some sort of control - either getting a friend to change the cables so I was 'blind', or even sighted, listening on my own, but using an good SPL meter to precisely match volume levels - and the differences previously noted pretty much went away.

    A telling comment I heard recently in conversation with an audiophile who had spent mega bucks on his kit and 'accessories' at a HiFi show I attended, in the B&O room auditioning the Beolab 90's, was that he had been a fervent believer in such things, until he put himself to the test and underwent a controlled test at matched volume levels and realised he could hear no difference.

    A moment of great epiphany for him - he was seriously considering selling up all his previously 'amazing' kit and heading in the direction of a pair of Lab 90s.

    And so it goes. I thought my Naim kit would absolutely wipe the face off the Sony AV amp I bought - but at matched volume levels and with some blind tests aided by friends, it was not the case.

    Yes, there were some slight sonic differences, as the two were very different amplifiers in terms of design, but at matched volume levels they sounded far more alike than different. By far the biggest difference was the price....

    So my point is that Naim is very good. Without question. However, don't think that by spending huge amounts of money you are going to get something hugely better, or for that matter spending far less, that you are going to get something vastly inferior.

    With amplifiers, you will likely at best, given similar design, power and distortion figures, and provided you are not driving it into distortion, encounter subtle nuances in sound that will only be apparent in very well known recordings; "oh, the cymbal on that 30 sec part of the recording is clearer; oh, the bass is just that little bit better defined on that 32' organ stop."

    Play unfamiliar material and especially at matched volume levels and it will be very difficult to hear differences at all. That is not to say that difference don't exist, but rather they are so subtle under controlled listening to not be an issue for any sensible audiophile.

    And lastly, even moving your speakers a few centimetres further apart, or away from the back wall, or corner, of moving you listening seat in the context of the listening room, or room treatments themselves, will all affect/alter the sound far more than any obsessing with cables and racks, let alone swapping out amplifiers.

    Call me stupid, berate me for not being a 'dyed in the wool' audiophile, lol.. but, I've been there, and done that, which is why I've personally forsaken the hit and miss, trial and error method of system building mixing and matching with separates, and gone fully active from a one make solution.

    Of course that's not going to suit a hobbyist who likes mixing and matching and tweaking, and I have no wish to denigrate that experience - but again after having been there, and done that, I much prefer the fully active route, speaking purely personally of course.

    And as such, for the Naim owner wishing to move to something else, I could scarcely not recommend a fully active system (insert your brand of choice) highly enough.
  6. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    It's certainly descriptive; almost inspired (by some heady stuff, maybe). Just hope this doesn't extend to the design engineers, though !:)

    Kit of quality doesn't need hyping, but maybe the Danish have to bring in the hyperbolical bacon. Sounds more like a travel ad.:)
  7. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    That is the most amusing marketing puff I have read for a while, thanks for posting, Archimago compares his Emotiva to one on his site.
  8. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    Jonboi, good post. What active system do you run now?
  9. venton

    venton pfm Member

    A bit of googling about the Randi challenge and it all seems a bit of a mess. That's the trouble with the internet, so many views are put forward as fact, but when you do a bit of digging it's never quite so clesr cut.
  10. S-Man

    S-Man Kinkless Tetrode Admirer

    Do I sense some expectation bias that any brand of fully active system is going to be fabulous?
  11. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    My favourite was the properly conducted blind test done by pfm'rs between an unserviced Nait and a recently serviced 72/hicap/135s during the pfm 'all amplifiers round the same' wars. The results were hailed as a victory for the subjectivists as two of the panel (the amps owner and his mate) miraculously could reliably identify which was which. Obviously these amps were no-where near the same spec so one would assume it would be obvious. However the rest of the panel couldn't differenciate and on the 'prefer' question they were split as to which they preferred.

    All from memory so I may have some detail wrong no doubt someone will be along to proffer the facts.
  12. antonio1

    antonio1 pfm Member

    tough ,really tough finding a better way to 'communicate' music as Naim does which won't cost an eye and a leg.
    Others may be better at focusing your attention on how single parameters change/improve as you climb the ladder, none in 'feeling' the whole bigger picture as with any Naim based set-up.
  13. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    How technically does a Naim amp 'communicate' music would you say?
  14. Morpeth

    Morpeth pfm Member

    I too am migrating away from Naim - but thats a house move for you...
  15. Bob Edwards

    Bob Edwards pfm Member

    Sorry, that's entirely too broad a statement. Plenty of other gear allows music to communicate music on an equal or superior level to what Naim does.

    Do you work for Naim?
  16. Julf

    Julf Evil brother of Mark V Shaney

    So what isn't a fact about the Randi challenge?
  17. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    As someone who has recently moved from high Naim to all valves, either Naim stuff isn't particularly rich in communication or there are very many forms to suit different perceptions, as said above. I favour the latter.

    Mind you, I'm not sure if this was a s/s versus valve thing, but my power amp's were valved with the 552 anyway, so little functional change but considerable sonic change.
  18. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    It makes it bigger so it's easier to hear.
  19. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    It? The price, the size or number of boxes, the volume, the bass, the image, (no can't be that; not a Naim thing). Can't think of anything else.:)
  20. venton

    venton pfm Member

    One has to demonstrate paranormal or psychic abilities to successfully win the million.

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