Moving from Naim

[Mike Reed]

That's what I like about Vitus- the 3-D sound staging...it really is impressive.

Yes, as I posted in 135, I've picked up on this aspect of Vitus, but from received wisdom only over the past couple of years. S.q. is one thing, but special presentation (I call it holography) is quite another; valved stuff generally has this, and as aforesaid, this is not a Naim forte; they major on other aspects.

I'd love to know how Vitus interacts with electrostatics, though. Richard (Lotus) has a pair of the 2905s in stock, so maybe I'll ask if he's put them together.

 

[Jonboi]

Fair enough.
My experience was a bit different. I owned Linn Ninkas and although they could sound very good in active mode, they also had some issues which meant some music was better in passive mode. Eventually I reverse engineered the active XO boards and it showed that they had added 10dB boot at 50Hz (IIRC). I couldn't see any attempt to add BSC. I did try defeating the LF boost bbut that sounded too lean. In the end I concluded Linn had done a very strange "bodge" on the electronic crossover.

In addition to that, in the old days at the Heathrow hifi show I remember being quite impressed by the basic Naim (+LP12) system but the 6 X NAP135 fully active system was very brittle and aggressive sounding.

I now run a semi active system. Active XO between LF system and two way "satellite" speakers which use a passive crossover. This is a very, very good solution.

Sounds an excellent set up - on your figures the Linn electronic crossover does sound a little odd.

I found the Olive generation of Naim, which I had, to major on dynamics, with a very solid/palpable representation of instrumental/vocal timbre - if lacking in tonal colour - but I agree as it could also sound rather brittle and aggressive on the 'wrong' recordings and very flat spatially - an exciting flat wall of sound projected forwards - but not exactly three dimensional.

The latest Naim sound seems to have gone the other way - a lot smoother sounding, so doubtless either less distortion, or at least less propensity to clip easily, much more of a sense of air and space in the sound, warm presentation, with again a good sense of palpable timbre - but still lacking in tonal colour to a degree - but in many ways the famous PRaT seems to have got up and gone, or at least severely toned down.

Certainly compared to my Sony TA- DA9000ES amp, when driving to the same measured SPL levels, one could hear the NAP180 clip momentarily into the SBL's on some music peaks, which surprisingly gave it something of an exciting 'edge' to the sound - but distortion it was nonetheless.

Perhaps this might be the reason that the later Naim amps sound slightly less 'exciting' compared to their arguably less well engineered forebears - sometimes momentary distortion can add a seemingly exciting and tension inducing 'zing' to the sound, but it's only when it's removed that you realise how artificial the effect was.

 

[AlanB]

Buying hifi for 44 years now during which I had a full Naim olive system. Enjoyed it for the dynamics and PRAT but fatiguing over the long run. Wandered through many solid state and valve systems. Loved valves but got the tube rolling bug which eventually ruined the enjoyment of listening to ..... the music.
Never thought it would ever happen but returned to Naim - 272/250DR and XPS (to be DR'd) with Harbeth SHL5 Plus speakers. The new Naim sound is much more musical and I am enjoying the music and audio experience more than ever before.

 

[hifinutt]

brilliant , so glad to hear that alan , must rock over and listen one day

 

[AlanB]

Hi Phil
You know you are always welcome.
Whodathought I'd be a Naimeeeee.

 

[lapman]

moved from my long term Naim kit to Devialet,

That's now gone and moving back to Naim.

A Naimeeee, I like it.

 

[nickpeacock]

Naim amps since mid 1990s. Can't imagine being happier. Never really "got" their speakers though.

Auditioned a Devialet but found it strangely unemotional - perhaps because it had not been tuned to the speakers we were audtioning at the time.

 

[lapman]

moved from my long term Naim kit to Devialet,

That's now gone and moving back to Naim.

A Naimeeee, I like it.

forgot to mention still using my NS1000m's purchased back in 1979. might need a recap, maybe.

 

[Sloop John B]

Naim, some life in the old dog yet.

I know I should know but what it tube rolling?

.sjb

 

[Mike Reed]

Changing valves in valve (tube) amplifiers. Different makes of compatible valves have different sonic effects. I gather this involves both output and signal valves.

Luckily my power amp's' output valves have no equivalents, sparing me that tweaking hassle. Doesn't stop local aficionados trying to get me started on the signal valves, though.

 

[Octave Doctor]

moved from my long term Naim kit to Devialet,

That's now gone and moving back to Naim.

A Naimeeee, I like it.

I did seriously consider moving to Devialet, the older Devialet amps (the 120,200 etc) were slightly cold and sterile sounding I thought but the main thing was they lacked musicality. A month or so ago I heard one of the new Expert Pro amps (the 220) and they are definitely better than the older amps and are slightly more musical but (as nickpeacock points out) are strangely unemotional. I actually had two dems and on both occasions the amp was tuned into the speakers (it's called SAM configuration) and that made a difference but again there was something missing, in fact a friend heard the 220 as well and his conclusion was that it wasn't very musical.

The amps are fantastic value for money though and they have a very good phono stage. As with the speakers you can configure the amp's phono stage to the cartridge you are using...very clever, I was impressed with the configuration options.

As I pointed out in a previous post after much soul searching I am (after 25 odd years) moving away from Naim to Vitus, I can always return to Naim if I don't get on with the new equipment but I think that's unlikely.

 

[Octave Doctor]

Naim amps since mid 1990s. Can't imagine being happier. Never really "got" their speakers though.

Auditioned a Devialet but found it strangely unemotional - perhaps because it had not been tuned to the speakers we were audtioning at the time.

I also auditioned a Devialet (the 220 Expert Pro) and I too found it unemotional and also not very musical...strange really because it has all the attributes to be a great amp. I especially like the configuration options and on both of the dems I had the Devialet was tuned (SAM configuration) to the speakers being used (PMC and KEFs), the phono stage was also configured to the cartridge I was using. It was OK but it was not quite right for me, I think the jury is still out on Devialets but having said that they appear to be quite popular, a friend who had a Naim system has gone over to Devialet.

Can you remember which Devialet amp you auditioned?

 

[heihei]

Which Vitus?

 

[PerF]

As I pointed out in a previous post after much soul searching I am (after 25 odd years) moving away from Naim to Vitus, I can always return to Naim if I don't get on with the new equipment but I think that's unlikely.

If emotional performance is a main goal I have never heard better solution than Naim

Admittedly not owned or used Vitus at home but listening during shows etc never got me inspired to explore these any further, impressing performance in many ways but not from the involving department sorry.

 

[Mike Reed]

If emotional performance is a main goal I have never heard better solution than Naim

You've got some pleasant surprises ahead, then. Said after 30 years of Naim to 552 status.

 

[Spd]

If emotional performance is a main goal I have never heard better solution than Naim

Admittedly not owned or used Vitus at home but listening during shows etc never got me inspired to explore these any further, impressing performance in many ways but not from the involving department sorry.

After extended home demo I switched to Vitus from Naim after many years of adding boxes, power supplies and upgrading. Part of my decision was based on simplifying things, reducing the boxes, leads, racks and amp buzzing. For me the strength of the Vitus gear I've heard is the ability to convey emotion in a way my Naim system never did. Just my opinion of course but I can only add after 2 years Ive played this system a lot more and my music collection has grow considerably in that time.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

Vitus? A mate's gone for this, and very nice it is too, but not for me, just different rather than better than my Naim kit. Vive le difference.

 

[rich46]

having spoke to dealers and looking at various sites the days of the black box count are numbered, even naim can see this if you look at the new series. still think the isolation of preamp and power amp is a good technical idea . quad knew this 50 years ago. the sales of valve units is dropping too. if you have the room the quad 2905 powered by platinium mono amps are excellent and I wouldn't change them, although I have upgraded the transformer which have improved them,cant see the point of very expensive preamps any more with the type of todays inputs. . the naim muso qb is very good for background music.for the younger generation it is the way audio is going. I don't know anyone that has purchase a cd player in the last few years In view of the new direction integrated units will become the norm.

 

[Ponkbutler]

After extended home demo I switched to Vitus from Naim after many years of adding boxes, power supplies and upgrading. Part of my decision was based on simplifying things, reducing the boxes, leads, racks and amp buzzing. For me the strength of the Vitus gear I've heard is the ability to convey emotion in a way my Naim system never did. Just my opinion of course but I can only add after 2 years Ive played this system a lot more and my music collection has grow considerably in that time.

What did you move from and to? Curious to hear Vitus gear. Have Rega Isis/Osiris on home demo at the moment...

 

[Mike Reed]

.... the quad 2905s powered by platinium mono amps are excellent and I wouldn't change them, although I have upgraded the transformer which have improved them,cant see the point of very expensive preamps any more with the type of todays inputs. .

You don't necessarily need Quad amp's for 2905s (or any Quad 'static speaker). My E.A.R. monoblocs, actually designed around Quad 63s, make a superb partnership. Providing they are powerful enough, many amp's will create good music with 2905s.

The transformer? Which transformer, and only one?

Pre-amp's are essential for anyone (like me) who relies on a multiplicity of sources. Nor is this a drawback sonically or in flexibility, providing there's absolute compatibility with the power amp's.