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MDAC First Listen (part 00111000)

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We need to listen to the digital volume control on the "Dacapo Anniversary" DAC board - for sure its really a specialised option and not for everyone.

Its designed for the very best sound quality over all other factors so has no SPDIF input and only supports USB and the streamer "inputs" (or a clock-locked SPDIF transport).

For CD playback either external USB CDRom drive connected to the streamer board or we can modify a CD transport to enable Clock-locking.

To fully answer your earlier post, I've learnt much since I worked on the aborted Dacapo2 project. Its now become apparent that the ESSPro dac's are the limiting factor on the MDAC2 design, hence the "Dacapo Anniversary" option to really show-off MDAC2 performance.

Hi JohnW,

Can you please let us know if the MDAC2+PSU design is anywhere near completion? When can we expect a prototype which can be debugged?

Thanks
 
No SPDIF input :( That's my only option. Is there any way to convert SPDIF to USB?

Sadly for SPDIF the ESS DAC board is the only option :(

There is no way to convert SPDIF "losslessly" to Async USB as you cannot clock the SPDIF source - this is the fundamental failing of SPDIF.
 
Hi JohnW,

Can you please let us know if the MDAC2+PSU design is anywhere near completion? When can we expect a prototype which can be debugged?

Thanks

Jadidih,

As you can see from our posts we are working on the DAC PCB ATM - end of August for the Debugged PCB's.
 
Sadly for SPDIF the ESS DAC board is the only option :(

There is no way to convert SPDIF "losslessly" to Async USB as you cannot clock the SPDIF source - this is the fundamental failing of SPDIF.

Would it help if I could tap an i2s output?
 
Jadidih,

As you can see from our posts we are working on the DAC PCB ATM - end of August for the Debugged PCB's.

OK, thanks for that. So I assume the PSU design/prototype is running in parallel would also be complete by end of August. right?

To be honest, from your posting I was worried you were starting a new project. That is why I asked.
 
To fully answer your earlier post, I've learnt much since I worked on the aborted Dacapo2 project. Its now become apparent that the ESSPro dac's are the limiting factor on the MDAC2 design, hence the "Dacapo Anniversary" option to really show-off MDAC2 performance.

So the same options will apply to FDAC? :)
 
OK, thanks for that. So I assume the PSU design/prototype is running in parallel would also be complete by end of August. right?

To be honest, from your posting I was worried you were starting a new project. That is why I asked.

Closer to the time Jarek will work on the PSU once hes completed some other projects.
 
So basically a plug in PCB/board for existing MDAC will be ready end of August with and optional power supply?

Production of first units will start around mid September once the SMD machine has been installed and we have a couple of weeks working experience with it.
 
For the PMD200 I've agreed a bulk price from a vendor in China - but in light of there cost I'll arrange a few Pcs. first to insure they are genuine parts - we will then order the IC's for production.

I don't care about "decoded" HDCD playback - but rather IMO the HDCD filter is still today the best sounding digital filter IC I've heard - so its offered as an option on the MDAC2 (ESS version) and mandatory for the "Dacapo Anniversary" version – the Dacapo Anniversary option replaces the dual ESSPros with a discrete DAC design.

The ESS version measures better and supports PCM to 768KHz (verses 384KHz) and also volume control with DSD.

The "Dacapo Anniversary" MDAC2 DAC PCB builds upon the discrete DAC topology used in my first commercial DAC design (ignoring a handful of “Westlake Audio DAC’s” sold before I was approached by Pink Triangle) – it has certain limitations (such as “only” supporting PCM to 192KHz / 384KHz without level control, and no level control with DSD playback) and also measures worst (~110dB dynamic range / THD 0.001%), but I’ll leave it for the forum to listen and decide which sounds the best – based on listening tests without a moments hesitation Jarek and I choose the discrete DAC version over the ESS.

The MDAC2 internal DAC PCB is user interchangeable and is a "Daughter board" mounted above the MDAC2 mainboard.

Due to "end of life" VERY limited parts availability - the "Dacapo Anniversary" version will only be offered to PFM'ers sponsor units until part stocks is exhausted. I've have managed to secure parts from Canada of all places!! for about 400 units (shared between MDAC2 and FDAC) so we will be plenty fine for PFM units but at the end of the day its going to be an inherently limited "Special edition" option (just like the VFET amps).
Sounds interesting is this similar to the DAC upgrade you want to make for the VFET amps?
What DSD rate will it support?
 
The discrete "Dacapo" DAC will support native DSD to 512 (64, 128, 256 & 512).

Its been a feeling for awhile now that the limiting factor is the ESS DAC's - it not to say they are bad DAC's but just that the MDAC2 / FDAC are ultimately being held back by the ESS's.

In our Lab we have a "Control Reference" DAC which is a very heavily modified Dacapo with Discrete output stage & FPGA based digital Filter / modulator and I much prefer to the ESS.

I must stress again - its not that the ESS"s are bad, but just that the modified "Dacapo" is better.

The amount of effort I've put into the MDAC2 design (Analogue stages, PSU, clocks etc.) it will really benefit from better DAC's - so there will be an upgrade path from ESS to Discrete DAC "Daughter board".

Based upon "public" feedback (ESS / Discrete DAC) will determine the FDAC / VFET amp DAC path.
 
As the MDAC2 starts to finally come together - the path to FDAC is also clearer, the MDAC2 will be released in "Stages":-

MDAC2 with Dual ESS9028PRo DAC PCB

MDAC2 with "Dacapo Anniversary" Discrete DAC

MDAC2 with "Dacapo Anniversary" Discrete DAC + FPGA Modulator

FDAC based on MDAC2 with "Dacapo Anniversary" Discrete DAC + FPGA Modulator and Tube output stage.

Each step of the MDAC2 path will (hopefully) be user upgradable by exchanging internal PCB's.

Also the MDAC2 external PSU will be offered in two versions, the initial design will be "Just" a HQ PSU, with a later version with internal CDRom slot loader + SDD Drive bay and front panel mounted USB port (for USB Flash drives) to form a complete solution with the MDAC2+ Streamer.
 
As the MDAC2 starts to finally come together - the path to FDAC is also clearer, the MDAC2 will be released in "Stages":-

MDAC2 with Dual ESS9028PRo DAC PCB

MDAC2 with "Dacapo Anniversary" Discrete DAC

MDAC2 with "Dacapo Anniversary" Discrete DAC + FPGA Modulator

FDAC based on MDAC2 with "Dacapo Anniversary" Discrete DAC + FPGA Modulator and Tube output stage.

Each step of the MDAC2 path will (hopefully) be user upgradable by exchanging internal PCB's.

Also the MDAC2 external PSU will be offered in two versions, the initial design will be "Just" a HQ PSU, with a later version with internal CDRom slot loader + SDD Drive bay and front panel mounted USB port (for USB Flash drives) to form a complete solution with the MDAC2+ Streamer.


Wow, great new ideas John :)
Sure looks like it makes a lot of sense to forget about the ESS DAC's altogether and really spent time on discrete only designs.
Too be honest, coming this far you shouldn't compromise, I think all involved will agree.
 
John,
I also like the path you're proposing, as it implies a first product available soon (which will make many people happy), as well as a path to something better than initially promised... especially if the upgrades can be made easily and cost effectively.

This will also result in a better FDAC, with lessons from the various MDAC2s.

I'm wondering if you expect that there will be some way to control volume with DSD sources with the FPGA modulator, for instance -adding a pre-amp after a reference DAC is a big compromise in my view.
 
+1

Uwe



John,
I also like the path you're proposing, as it implies a first product available soon (which will make many people happy), as well as a path to something better than initially promised... especially if the upgrades can be made easily and cost effectively.

This will also result in a better FDAC, with lessons from the various MDAC2s.

I'm wondering if you expect that there will be some way to control volume with DSD sources with the FPGA modulator, for instance -adding a pre-amp after a reference DAC is a big compromise in my view.
 
John,
I also like the path you're proposing, as it implies a first product available soon (which will make many people happy), as well as a path to something better than initially promised... especially if the upgrades can be made easily and cost effectively.

Yes, this exactly :)

This will also result in a better FDAC, with lessons from the various MDAC2s.

Yes this has been my point of view for awhile now - lets see where the MDAC2 "developments" lead the FDAC - the FDAC will encompass all the advances brought by the MDAC2 and go further with internal PSU and Tube stage etc.

I'm wondering if you expect that there will be some way to control volume with DSD sources with the FPGA modulator, for instance -adding a pre-amp after a reference DAC is a big compromise in my view.

I'm still not sure that's the solution for DSD - I fear any processing of the Native DSD will destroy DSD's advantages... MDAC2 will give us possibilities to try...
 
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