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MDAC First Listen (part 00110111)

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I don't think a new front panel will take a lot of time, it's just fitting a display (my assumption) for the Streamer ...personally I would prefer this over that cheapy now dated looking old MDAC :)
 
jadidih101 said:
JohnW,

Glad to see the production preparation coming together. Great work.

Not sure about the front panel changes. It seems another thing that can delay the development/delivery of MDAC2 even more. It seems we have a new back plate, new front panel, new external power supply. How is this an MDAC upgrade? The only thing we have kept the same is form factor (except being a bit longer) which caused so much problem when you tried to fit every thing else on the Main board.

I am hesitant in committing more funds towards it as I thought new front panel and more drastic changes were going to happen for FDAC (I am signed up for two of those).

What I need to know is when you think we will have a finished MDAC2 board + PSU (in bare format, no fancy case or front panel) that can be listened to. That is why I signed up for this project. Otherwise all your hard work and money (very much yours and ours) would be, sorry to say, for nothing.

All I ask is that we keep our focus on the main thing we all signed up for originally. To me that was a DAC that is superior in SOUND to anything else in the market. The look and feel is secondary. I respectfully ask that please keep that in mind.

Regard,
Hossein
Click to expand...

I might be a bit dim here but are you saying the only thing needed from the old MDAC is the sleeve?
 
ti33er said:
..... it's just fitting a display (my assumption) for the Streamer ...
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That is exactly why I believe it will take a very long time (6 months +) to develop. And this is why I think that. Because of the size of the display we will probably have to develop something using qt framework. Not the easiest of framework. Before we can develop it we have to agree to the design. Let's say to speed things up we design as we go (which is a very bad idea to start with) we still have to test every menu/button and result. And guess what every man and his dog will have features that they want included and before we know it we will have a civil war here on what is essential and what is desired ( a big issue in SW dev). We still have to find people (this will take more than one guy) who would want to do the development/debugging and future maintenance. I can go on but I think you can see that this is not just a small job.

Based on my limited experience with software I would stay away from custom interface design unless the parameters are very clearly defined. Considering we are probably going to use Volumio on the streamer we should just stick with its mobile app/HTTP interface for MDAC2 streamer.

IMHO, FDAC is where we should do this as we will have time and we would have learnt from our experience with MDAC2 and streamer.
 
I must say that I support a new front panel (if the cost is reasonable) - we're going to have a whole new DAC, so it would be a shame for it to still say it's an original MDAC.

How wil the sponsorship work?
 
Hossein,

John is as far as I know not doing the software and the connector to the display is already on the streamer board.

So I do not see the software development delay the MDAC2 or the new front panel and display.
 
Hi Everyone,

Before this all goes around the usual cycle of endless questions and recommendations... Can we please let John run this project how he wants.

John knows all the criticisms, valid and invalid. Let's just be supportive and let John be undistracted by issues you think he's unaware of. John will update us here when he can, he has a lot of work and balls in the air.

I'm confident John has heard it and is aware.

Please let John lead this project how he wants... Its the best way to get a result.
 
jadidih101 said:
That is exactly why I believe it will take a very long time (6 months +) to develop. And this is why I think that. Because of the size of the display we will probably have to develop something using qt framework. Not the easiest of framework. Before we can develop it we have to agree to the design. Let's say to speed things up we design as we go (which is a very bad idea to start with) we still have to test every menu/button and result. And guess what every man and his dog will have features that they want included and before we know it we will have a civil war here on what is essential and what is desired ( a big issue in SW dev). We still have to find people (this will take more than one guy) who would want to do the development/debugging and future maintenance. I can go on but I think you can see that this is not just a small job.

Based on my limited experience with software I would stay away from custom interface design unless the parameters are very clearly defined. Considering we are probably going to use Volumio on the streamer we should just stick with its mobile app/HTTP interface for MDAC2 streamer.

IMHO, FDAC is where we should do this as we will have time and we would have learnt from our experience with MDAC2 and streamer.
Click to expand...

The Guys at Volumio are developing the software UI for us - so we leave this in there more then capable hands, in fact they offered and are very excited by the MDAC2 :)

It would be far harder for us to write software to talk with the existing MDAC front panel - we might need to offer a new front panel PCB to ease / reduce the development times.

Jarek is the only person here capable to write software - and its not something he's happy doing or an expert in (although he gets better on each project).
 
Ian M said:
I might be a bit dim here but are you saying the only thing needed from the old MDAC is the sleeve?
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+ Remote control....

Unfortunately the sleeve is a single Pcs. hollow extrusion tooling which makes it expensive - about US$3K and not an extra cost I can consider at this time.

Once funds start arriving then I might open tooling which basically depends on what happens to MDAC2 after the PFM units.
 
ljmac said:
I must say that I support a new front panel (if the cost is reasonable) - we're going to have a whole new DAC, so it would be a shame for it to still say it's an original MDAC.

How wili the sponsorship work?
Click to expand...

We are currently designing a custom capacitive touch panel which we will summit to the vendor in China - we need feedback from our vendor to see if its possible to manufacture and NRE tooling costs.

The Front panel itself is CNC'ed from 15mm sheet aluminium.
 
taccoguy said:
John , ok, but when will that be ?
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I'm having trouble getting units for myself - there is massive demand. What's happening is that dealers who get the units are keep them for themselves or for family and friends so that they are not reaching street level in qtys. until we can really ramp up production!
 
JohnW said:
I'm having trouble getting units for myself - there is massive demand. What's happening is that dealers who get the units are keep them for themselves or for family and friends so that they are not reaching street level in qtys. until we can really ramp up production!
Click to expand...

It is great to see that there is high demand!

Just shows what you are doing is right.

Getting the Volumio Guys on board was a scoop :cool:
 
JohnW said:
The Guys at Volumio are developing the software UI for us - so we leave this in there more then capable hands, in fact they offered and are very excited by the MDAC2 :)

It would be far harder for us to write software to talk with the existing MDAC front panel - we might need to offer a new front panel PCB to ease / reduce the development times.

Jarek is the only person here capable to write software - and its not something he's happy doing or an expert in (although he gets better on each project).
Click to expand...

So I guess there is good news and bad news. Glad to hear that Volumio guys are looking into doing the sw. Bad news, as far as I am concerned, is that I have to get MDAC2 with streamer board whether I want it or not.

I don't care about the cost (which will be considerable by the way) but I seriously have my doubts if the streamer board will not cause RF interference in the small MDAC2 case. I am saying that because DETOX has 50 screws to air seal different sections of the USB bus/chipset and you are putting in a GHz 64-bit bus+CPU+memory and everything else with just a thin shielding around certain areas just above all the MDAC2 board.

Like I said I have my doubts but here is hoping you will prove me wrong.

You have given us update on everything except where you are with MDAC2 and PSU boards. I really appreciate it if you can give us a estimate when you think the design of these two sections will be complete and a listening test can be done. Without these two pieces every thing else is just waste of time. Sorry did I said that aloud :D

Goes without saying I am very grateful for all your hard work.

Cheers,
Hossein
 
jadidih101 said:
Bad news, as far as I am concerned, is that I have to get MDAC2 with streamer board whether I want it or not.
Click to expand...
John has confirmed, not even a month ago, that the streamer will be optional,
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3116265

(Or have I misunderstood it?)

I personally wouldn't expect extensive functionality from the non-streamer version, but it would be nice to have some basic firmware that can interact via USB (DAC/ADC), switch inputs/filters, change volume, .. basically what MDAC (1) v0.90 does, without the extra bells and whistles.
In case it becomes a maintenance burden, the firmware could probably be "opened" later down the road, to allow others to implement and personalize whatever they want (ie. swap the play/pause IR code for mute code, like on some MDAC FW versions, etc.).
 
John

Is the new front panel that you are referring to necessary/relevant if you do not require/have the streamer pcb fitted? Or is an updated panel that can be fitted and be fully functionally with or without the streamer pcb?

Do you have a likely cost?
 
I have to say that retaining only the sleeve for MDAC2 and effectively junking the perfectly good innards and front/rear panels feels a bit, well, wasteful.
 
paulski said:
I have to say that retaining only the sleeve for MDAC2 and effectively junking the perfectly good innards and front/rear panels feels a bit, well, wasteful.
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Especially when the Fdac will only be a few months later on.

Or is Mdac 2 now the new Fdac ?

Whatever happened to touch screen PC's ??

Why with the streamer board can we not have a PC interface for tinkering with settings.

To me the new front panel seems like another delay/cost and in my view not necessary.
 
JohnW said:
I'm having trouble getting units for myself - there is massive demand. What's happening is that dealers who get the units are keep them for themselves or for family and friends so that they are not reaching street level in qtys. until we can really ramp up production!
Click to expand...

That augers well John, sounds like they really like them !
 
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