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MDAC First Listen (part 00110111)

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AndyU said:
The MDAC2 does not exist. It is not available for sale. It cannot have a main selling point.
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If you don't anticipate that the best DAC that John knows how to make will be an exceptionally good DAC then why are you posting on this thread?
 
By the time this is produced, if ever, it will be 5 years behind what is available now?
 
kennyh said:
Hi again Stephen. On the last example I gave of CD/iqdac/allo/Mdac the Mdac was fed via a rpi with Digi+ optical board, also obviously running on the same Logitec server.
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I don't see the point of using digital audio optical into the MDAC/QDAC/etc… as it is an inherently poor source compared to I2S (the way your Allo DAC is connected to your RPI).

Connecting a decent DAC with a poor source just means poor analogue output.

You could connect the “USB” DACs that you mentioned (MDAC, VDAC, MYDAC, Benchmark2, Cambridge) to the USB on the RPI. But I don"t think this would give the best results because the RPI has noisy power rails and jittery clocks – which would provide poor quality USB audio source to the DACs.

In reality it is difficult to do a comparison to see the best of RPI DACs Vs USB DACs on a real like for like basis. Mainly because the RPI isn’t a good USB audio source for the USB DACs, and connecting the RPI DACs via I2S with external stable master clock will for sure offer a better source than the RPIs USB interface.

If you want to see how good the “USB” DACs (MDAC, VDAC,MYDAC,Benchmark2, Cambridge) are / or not compared to your RPI DACs. Then you should use USB from the PC where you run the player directly into the USB DACs, and try several PCs if you can (to eliminte any poor USB source).

For example. In my setup I have Roon running on a mac mini connected to my MDAC via USB and my music library is on a NAS. If I were to compare this using your configuration of RPI + KALI I2S reclocker + Allo Piano DAC. Then I would connect the RPI to my Network (install Roon bridge on the RPI) and connect the Allo Piano DAC into my preamp.

(I use the word poor to mean poor quality due to noise / jitter)

Hope it makes sense.
 
Thanks again Stephen and yes it does make sense what you say. We actually did use USB on the other the other owners DACs, using straightforward Tidal as opposed to Tidal through LMS.

The consensus was though, the method when comparing the RPI dacs to the MDAC (as I was thinking of moving it on if it was not as good as the little rpi dacs) should be coax via the digi+ board as this sounded far sharper/clearer/better than USB from a number of laptops when used with the recently recapped Mdac. In fact I thought both optical and coax sounded better.

Is the consensus we reached wrong in your opinion? Do you reckon the Mdac should sound better tethered to the laptop with a USB cable? Interesting stuff. I think the rpi and Digi+ upped the Mdac's game by miles.

Again thanks.
 
Just another point. A chap in our circle bought an MDAC on Ebay a couple of months ago. I believe he was a PFM'r too who sold it, down south from us in Lancs. This apparently was upgraded to one of the specs is it Toy/Fusion or something along those lines. I will find out anyway.

He loved it and used it with laptop USB. When I hooked it up for him with the rpi/Digi+ (thanks Jimpey for introducing me to that trick) he was amazed at the benefit it brought too.

Cheers
 
kennyh said:
Thanks again Stephen and yes it does make sense what you say. We actually did use USB on the other the other owners DACs, using straightforward Tidal as opposed to Tidal through LMS.

The consensus was though, the method when comparing the RPI dacs to the MDAC (as I was thinking of moving it on if it was not as good as the little rpi dacs) should be coax via the digi+ board as this sounded far sharper/clearer/better than USB from a number of laptops when used with the recently recapped Mdac. In fact I thought both optical and coax sounded better.

Is the consensus we reached wrong in your opinion? Do you reckon the Mdac should sound better tethered to the laptop with a USB cable? Interesting stuff. I think the rpi and Digi+ upped the Mdac's game by miles.

Again thanks.
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If was trying to get the best out of an MDAC, or any of the other USB DACs that you mentioned, IMO it would be without doubt via USB, and not using SPDIF (coax or optical).

But having said that the USB source needs to be as clean as possible from noise and free as possible from jitter – and this is where the whole Regen / Detox thing comes from…
 
kennyh said:
Just another point. A chap in our circle bought an MDAC on Ebay a couple of months ago. I believe he was a PFM'r too who sold it, down south from us in Lancs. This apparently was upgraded to one of the specs is it Toy/Fusion or something along those lines. I will find out anyway.

He loved it and used it with laptop USB. When I hooked it up for him with the rpi/Digi+ (thanks Jimpey for introducing me to that trick) he was amazed at the benefit it brought too.

Cheers
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The only way this makes sense to me is if the USB source(s) introduced noise / jitter, laptops are much worse for noise than desktop PCs. Difficult to say more without knowing datails, that's for another day.
 
Hi John,

The last time I contacted you was about 3 years ago.

I'm just trying to catch up with your progress, and sifting through all the forum posts is proving too difficult.

My questions:

• What have I paid for?

• When will it be ready?

• Will there ever be a replaceable board for my existing MDAC (which was what I signed on for in the beginning)? I know you've come a long way in development – looking to build something much more robust, but I'm not sure if the simple swapping of boards is still on offer.

I would love a quick reply that lets me know where I currently stand.

And please note, I am Stefan Wegner (Canadian). I know you have more than one Stefan on your client list as this caused some mix ups in our communication the last time.

Still wishing you all the best in your creations and looking forward to your detailed response.

All the best,
Stefan Wegner
 
stefanwegner said:
Hi John,

The last time I contacted you was about 3 years ago.





• What have I paid for?

• When will it be ready?

• Will there ever be a replaceable board for my existing MDAC (which was what I signed on for in the beginning)? I know you've come a long way in development – looking to build something much more robust, but I'm not sure if the simple swapping of boards is still on offer.
All the best,
Stefan Wegner
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Hi Stefan,

John is trying to take a break from this correspondence, which got a bit acrimonious, to get on with the development.

I don't know what you have paid, but almost everyone else has paid a develpment cost only. When production starts, (probably not before September) there will be a further production cost.

After a long and complicated story, John is focussing on almost exactly what you want, a plug-in replacement board, called MDAC2, to fit in your MDAC case. This should be very good, and should become available late this year.

Later, if you are interested, there will also be a full-width unit, FDAC, (maybe using a tube o/p)which should be competitive with almost everything out there.

I hope this helps

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

Thanks so much for the update!

I'm so glad to hear that what I paid for so many years ago will actually exist.

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I hope John will contact us directly with updates when the delivery day is near - that would be lovely.

Cheers,
Stefan
 
AndyU said:
According to JohnWs post that I linked to earlier, the DETOX will only galvanically isolate to USB1.1 therefore a maximum of 24bit/96kHz. So it does matter if you want to play higher res than that and get galvanic isolation - you won't with the DETOX and you will with the iFiAudio device. Neither actually exist yet. Here's what JohnW said about the DETOX
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The way I remember it is that "detox" itself will have galvanic isolation only for USB1.1, but MDAC2/FDAC will have it for USB2.0 as well, but "after" the USB-handling circuit where it is much easier to implement. Practically, there won't be any difference for MDAC2/FDAC users as the circuit si simply broken at a different place and the "harmful RF" is filtered at the detox already.

If the intention is to use a different DAC at USB2.0 or higher, then the iFi thing might indeed be better suited (though it will depend on how it's priced).
 
taccoguy said:
Tried to Order that little Project Dac that John advised, can`t deliver before September.
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I have also looked at ordering one because it looks like the P&P machine will arrive in September and therefore me getting my hands on a DEVDAC is unlikely.
And CM3 modules for the streamer is also listed as arriving in September on various dealer sites.

So no matter what we end up in September :eek:
 
My MDac starts making Trouble and I don`t want it for Repair ,til MDac2 happens.So I thought that one is finished and in Produktion.
 
Rune said:
I have also looked at ordering one because it looks like the P&P machine will arrive in September and therefore me getting my hands on a DEVDAC is unlikely.
And CM3 modules for the streamer is also listed as arriving in September on various dealer sites.

So no matter what we end up in September :eek:
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So roughly speaking DEVDAC (means DAC board + Lakewest modified CM3) end of the year then.
 
taccoguy said:
My MDac starts making Trouble and I don`t want it for Repair ,til MDac2 happens.So I thought that one is finished and in Produktion.
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Not clear what you mean.

If you want to get your MDAC repaired IAG in the UK can do that, but expect it to take a month or so + postage time.

As for MDAC2 in production - this year IMHO is not very likely.
 
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