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MDAC First Listen (part 00110100)

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Achim said:
It's an album. I searched for "sound effects" on Tidal in order to compare natural sounds to the intro of Bubbles, to make sure the odd plastic sound was not my systems' fault.

I have been a table tennis player for quite a part of my youth, I know how table tennis balls sound in the real world ;-) That's a different kind of 'plastic'.

Edit: Not to be misunderstood: Yes, it's table tennis balls on the recording - but the recording is mangled somehow. Maybe to do with the 3D effect, maybe to compression or some other processing.
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Will need to check SQ of Bubbles on my main system. Given that Dynamic Range of many of the tracks in the discography have values of 5-7, your comment re compression, etc., may be appropriate.

I actually sent a note to Horikawa asking why, with the interest in the sounds he uses, the recordings are so compressed. Cannot imagine that those primarily interested in portable audio are the driving force here.
 
JohnW said:
Ricky,

Renata's just checking your DAC before is sent - did you still have the screen protector film on your unit?

Also, when your unit arrived last year I replaced only the bad caps - I've since done a full recap since we used it for our Detox listening tests - so it will need time to run-in as the caps are fresh... so just leave it powered for 3-5 days...
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Thank you John.

I saw your mail and replied at lunchtime - so hopefully you got that. In case not, then I doubt it still had the protector- I typically only leave something like that on if I think I may sell it on.

I'll make sure to leave the unit powered on for the caps.

Re the software version iirc I had the original - or it may have been V90 - if thats different. As I recall it was the less feature rich version, as I didn't need the renameable inputs and so on, that you and others felt sounded better.

If this version is equivalent to that, i'll leave it for now. If not then I may downgrade it, if someone can remind me of the version that people felt sounded best.

Pls let me know the shipping charge and your preferred payment option.
 
Achim said:
Very nice idea of Horikawa to develop music from everyday sounds.

Alas, the intro of Bubbles sounds totally plastic to me, interesting 3D effects, but the sound quality is nothing to judge a DAC by, IMHO.

The next song on that album sounds more natural, but still no cigar.

If you're on Tidal, check out the album "Bells: Sound Effects". That's some proper sound material. Lacking the whistles, though (and no MQA, gosh)...
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Agreed having listened to the whole EP on Bandcamp. If you prefer more bish bash bosh to ping pong :p check this one: New Jersey Percussion Ensemble "Percussion Music" on Presto or Amazon. :)
 
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Could Wiff Waff becoming a new musical genre ?

If so I predict the future is Golf, the sound of the tee off.
 
jamjar784 said:
If you prefer more bish bash bosh to ping pong :p check this one: New Jersey Percussion Ensemble "Percussion Music"
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Cool, I get this on Tidal as well.

Lots of posh bosh and superbly rendered to this stereo-thingy everyone talks about these days.

Nice one!
 
To offer "Possible" MQA support on MDAC2 we have updated the XMOS USB device to a larger device - having the extra processing "horse power" required to implement MQA.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/MQA XMOS.JPG

In the above image you can see the original XMOS device on the Black PCB and the new Green PCB where we managed to squeeze in the larger device in very limited space!

Ironically the larger XMOS is on 12 weeks backorder with all suppliers so its been a challenge to source devices to build and test MQA - but we managed to source a few Pcs. which will be here towards the end of the week :)

I'm not even sure what available with MQA? - is there any decent Music? where do we get it from?

I'm a little pissed about all the “noise” around MQA when there is no real information of what it does – on one hand its been sold to the streaming services as DRM and reduced data bandwidth – and further up the road as “superior” quality with no proof – I just see it as DRM and reduced data bandwidth so important to streaming providers – to the end user I don’t see what it can offers over Correctly mastered “non lossy” compressed files, not to mention DSD!

192KHz MQA playback is NOT the same as “Bit Accurate” native 192KHz playback.

I remain open to be convinced about MQA...
 
JohnW said:
To offer "Possible" MQA support on MDAC2 we have updated the XMOS USB device to a larger device - having the extra processing "horse power" required to implement MQA.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/MQA XMOS.JPG

In the above image you can see the original XMOS device on the Black PCB and the new Green PCB where we managed to squeeze in the larger device in very limited space!

Ironically the larger XMOS is on 12 weeks backorder with all suppliers so its been a challenge to source devices to build and test MQA - but we managed to source a few Pcs. which will be here towards the end of the week :)

I'm not even sure what available with MQA? - is there any decent Music? where do we get it from?

I'm a little pissed about all the “noise” around MQA when there is no real information of what it does – on one hand its been sold to the streaming services as DRM and reduced data bandwidth – and further up the road as “superior” quality with no proof – I just see it as DRM and reduced data bandwidth so important to streaming providers – to the end user I don’t see what it can offers over Correctly mastered “non lossy” compressed files, not to mention DSD!

192KHz MQA playback is NOT the same as “Bit Accurate” native 192KHz playback.

I remain open to be convinced about MQA...
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MQA is a brilliant marketing wheeze for Merdian to make bucket-loads of dosh. I'm not very interested in it so haven't delved very much but its coding seems to be a wrapper where if every part of the chain is "authenticated" - you get to eat the entire cookie rather than just the crumbs. The upshot being that playback through an "ordinary" DAC will be at lower quality rather than silence.

This is partial DRM. If you implemented it, I presume any digital output would have to be restricted to the lower quality. I believe the licensing ain't cheap.
 
busb said:
This is partial DRM. If you implemented it, I presume any digital output would have to be restricted to the lower quality.
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Yes, digital output AFTER the MQA Renderer is not allowed - but Decoded MQA is (such as via the Tidal App).

busb said:
I believe the licensing ain't cheap.
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This is an issue for MDAC2 / FDAC due to the need to spread the cost across the small number of units and why I'm saying we can support MQA via a software update (hardware will be ready and pre-tested) if MQA becomes "necessary" - but at a fee to cover the licensing etc.
 
Interesting interviews on Stereophile with Juergen Reis (MBL's Chief Designer, who is also a mastering engineering) here and here.

MBL had their new N31 DAC (24/192 PCM, DSD 64/128 $18k release May 2017) on demo at CES and gave 2 interviews.

My take from the videos, loosely paraphrased ...

The design focus was on jitter elimination (3 step with optical isolation) and best time domain performance. It uses ESS Pro chip but with customisation - taps re-programmed. Juergen says it's very good but has some issues which they have to work around:
- no inter sample overload prevention
- switch from delta sigma to multibit is obvious
- deep filter

They add 3.5 dB headroom to the incoming digital path so 0dBfs signal never causes inter sample overload. Music tracks may have no clipping (maximum signal level not exceeded) but have 1000's of overloads between samples. Burr Brown chips still have this problem.

The DAC has 2 filters described as
- minimum phase with 4 cycles post ringing - they say this is optimal
- linear phase filter - has pre-ringing which brain detects as unnatural, no distortion but flat soundstage

He also says mains cables and interconnects can cause audible system changes if common mode noise rejection is poor. Source, DAC and amplifier are also interconnected by the mains supply.

Not that I have $18K lying around :eek:
 
jamjar784 said:
They add 3.5 dB headroom to the incoming digital path so 0dBfs signal never causes inter sample overload.
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3.5 dB is not enough to ensure you "never" have intersample overload.

He also says mains cables and interconnects can cause audible system changes if common mode noise rejection is poor. Source, DAC and amplifier are also interconnected by the mains supply.
Click to expand...

And is the common mode noise rejection poor in their product?
 
JohnW said:
To offer "Possible" MQA support on MDAC2 we have updated the XMOS USB device to a larger device - having the extra processing "horse power" required to implement MQA.....
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I really hope that you are still the only one who is the master of your build! Even after going the MQA way!
I am not and I will not be interested in any MQA stuff. FLAC and DSD is more than enough for me. I see no advantage in MQA beside earning money for Merdiian.
I hope that MQA will be just an option to those who are interested in that..... and they pay the "MQA brilliant marketing wheeze" bill by themselves.
On the other side to have more XMOS power is a fine thing ;-)
 
fred sonnen said:
I really hope that you are still the only one who is the master of your build! Even after going the MQA way!
I am not and I will not be interested in any MQA stuff. FLAC and DSD is more than enough for me. I see no advantage in MQA beside earning money for Merdiian.
I hope that MQA will be just an option to those who are interested in that..... and they pay the "MQA brilliant marketing wheeze" bill by themselves.
On the other side to have more XMOS power is a fine thing ;-)
Click to expand...

Ditto
 
John, I came across this:


If you watch from 15mins you'll see some of your work being discussed....You even get credited with owning PFM (nobody tell TonyL)...:)


BTW: I'm knocking on the door to the order book for the T0 Detox units.
 
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At this point I'd vote against anything on a 3-month backorder, unless it's for the FDAC.

But then 'democracy' is looking increasingly overrated. :)

From a commercial perspective, preventing obsolescence for as long as possible has to make sense, I guess.
 
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