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MC cartridge loading

Seanm

Seanm

pfm Member
Any advice on what to listen out for, with regard to both resistance and capacitance? I realise it's all system dependent but some pointers would be helpful. I'm experimenting with an AT33ev at the moment and it feels like I've had some success taming a harsh treble by lowering resistance, which seems reasonable from what I've read. Not sure what difference capacitance is supposed to make with MCs.
 
You’re on the right track with the resistance, too little and the bass will go soft. Capacitance can also be used to tame the top end but it has a different effect on timing. I used to avoid adding anything over the built in level but while attempting to reduce some mild radio pickup I found I prefered a little bit of added cap for its effect on the music, just 470pF in my case on a Naim Superline helped things swing a little better.
 
Thanks yeti. What effect did the extra capacitance have? I'm using an Aria and the lowest cap setting is 1000pF.
 
yeti42 said:
just 470pF in my case on a Naim Superline helped things swing a little better.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to remember the cap. plugs (3 of them?) on my Superline. One was 1pF, another (the one I used) 5.6 and there was another, but I don't think it was as high as 470 (sounds more like resistance value?). Theoretically, capacitance shouldn't have much effect on l.o. moving coils, but I found (on Benz, Koetsu and Transfig.) that it does affect the tonality a little. It's more useful where RFI is concerned.

Generally, external resistance values affect the sound thus: the higher the resistance value, the lessening of the bass and increase of treble. The lower the value, the more bass and less treble, and in some cases, dynamics as well. Each cart. has its optimum balance, although this is also governed by taste and tone-arm. Too much capacitance can 'sit' on s.q., and should in any case be pretty low with m/c cart's.

For what it's worth, Koetsus usually work best at 100 ohms, Benz 200 to 400 and Lyras around the 500 mark. I'd imagine that the cart' details give an indication, but maybe not, as there are so many variables. I'd hazard a wild guess that the Hana might be at the lower end of these values, but could be wrong here.
 
Mike Reed said:
I'm trying to remember the cap. plugs (3 of them?) on my Superline. One was 1pF, another (the one I used) 5.6 and there was another, but I don't think it was as high as 470 (sounds more like resistance value?). Theoretically, capacitance shouldn't have much effect on l.o. moving coils, but I found (on Benz, Koetsu and Transfig.) that it does affect the tonality a little. It's more useful where RFI is concerned.

Generally, external resistance values affect the sound thus: the higher the resistance value, the lessening of the bass and increase of treble. The lower the value, the more bass and less treble, and in some cases, dynamics as well. Each cart. has its optimum balance, although this is also governed by taste and tone-arm. Too much capacitance can 'sit' on s.q., and should in any case be pretty low with m/c cart's.

For what it's worth, Koetsus usually work best at 100 ohms, Benz 200 to 400 and Lyras around the 500 mark. I'd imagine that the cart' details give an indication, but maybe not, as there are so many variables. I'd hazard a wild guess that the Hana might be at the lower end of these values, but could be wrong here.
Click to expand...

nF not pF

Capacitance is generally irrelevant with an MC cart and different carts tend to not all respond the same way to resistive loading. IMHO the differences due to loading are fairly subtle.
 
Cheers Mike, Pete. 100 ohms is what I have it at now, and thought I had it at all along: in fact it was at 400, and I think this accounts for my sense of the new system as lean.
 
The superline cap plugs are 1, 5.6 and 10 nF, the 470pF is available to order.
Overdo the capacitance and it rolls off the treble too much, and messes with the timing. I only got the 470pf because I was picking up radio moscow and the 1nF was too much, I then realised I preferred the17d3 I was using with 470R and 470pF to either the 470R or the (rated for dynavectors on a superline) 453R with no cap plug. Later I replaced the 17D with a Proteus and spent a few weeks trying different loadings before deciding on 100R with no cap plug, a later change of deck and arm led to the 470pF going back on and staying there. What works best is a matter of trial and error. If you can’t hear which is best don’t sweat it, I could never hear much difference from any cable dressing etc when I ran Rega amps but still enjoyed my music, the Naim stuff seems more particular about all sorts of thing.
 
400 Ohms would indeed be far too bright with an AT33EV. I always used mine with bang on 100 Ohms. I tried it with a Hashimoto HM-3 into a 47KOhm MM stage, which should give just a bit higher (around 110-120Ohms, I think), and this was too bright.
 
Elephantears said:
400 Ohms would indeed be far too bright with an AT33EV. I always used mine with bang on 100 Ohms. I tried it with a Hashimoto HM-3 into a 47KOhm MM stage, which should give just a bit higher (around 110-120Ohms, I think), and this was too bright.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andrew, and thanks for recommending the cart to begin with, I'm now very happy with my vinyl set up (Gyro, Nima, AT33ev). There is still a hint of grain with certain frequencies but I'm hoping to tame that with a little mechanical damping. Have you experimented with capacitance loading with the AT?
 
Elephantears said:
400 Ohms would indeed be far too bright with an AT33EV. I always used mine with bang on 100 Ohms. I tried it with a Hashimoto HM-3 into a 47KOhm MM stage, which should give just a bit higher (around 110-120Ohms, I think), and this was too bright.
Click to expand...
There is no one solution option for all. The cartridge complete with the capacitance of the connecting leads and loading and capacitance of the phono amp forms an LC circuit that will have a resonant frequency. This needs to be flattened or moved way out of the audio spectrum.

I performed a few calculations on the back of a fag packet and for this cart that has an inductance of 22 microhenry the optimum loading is in the hundreds of Ohms. The actual value depends on the capacitance of the connecting cable and input of the phono stage. The higher the capacitance the lower the optimum loading resistance.

My own cart that has an inductance of 18 microhenry works very well into the 600 Ohms of my phono stage.

Cheers,

DV
 
DV, we were talking about resistive loading. Sean discovered that he had this set at 400 Ohms by mistake when he thought it was at 100 Ohms, hence the brightness.

Sean, no I can't remember comparing different capacitive loadings with the AT. It might be worth trying, but with an MC, the difference (if any) is going to be a lot more subtle than getting the resistive loading right.
 
Darth Vader said:
There is no one solution option for all. The cartridge complete with the capacitance of the connecting leads and loading and capacitance of the phono amp forms an LC circuit that will have a resonant frequency. This needs to be flattened or moved way out of the audio spectrum.

I performed a few calculations on the back of a fag packet and for this cart that has an inductance of 22 microhenry the optimum loading is in the hundreds of Ohms. The actual value depends on the capacitance of the connecting cable and input of the phono stage. The higher the capacitance the lower the optimum loading resistance.

My own cart that has an inductance of 18 microhenry works very well into the 600 Ohms of my phono stage.

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

It seems you are getting MM and MC mixed up...
 
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