advertisement


Mains Cables

To be fair, militant subjectivism has been around for a long time and has a bloody history. Remember the Spanish Inquisition?
 
Is there any other area of consumer domestic electronics where power cables are thought to make a difference to the performance of the gadget? I don't think that there is. Not in itself proof of anything, but an interesting observation, perhaps.
 
Interesting point, but I'm struggling to think of any other area of consumer domestic electronics which has a 'high-end' and a 'mass-market end' though.
 
Interesting point, but I'm struggling to think of any other area of consumer domestic electronics which has a 'high-end' and a 'mass-market end' though.

Check out the vacuum cleaner thread. Elitism is alive and well in the field of carpet cleaning :D

I am wondering if a nice mains lead on the kettle will lead to a more satisfying coffee, perhaps a little darker but better defined. Or on the toaster where I am sure it will lead to a more uniform toasting and more space around the crust..
 
Naah, most vacuum cleaners come with captive mains leads.

Actually, I grant you, espresso machines do attract the sort of nitpicking perfectionism we hifi aficionados go in for. Anybody know whether Gaggia do a model with an IEC socket round the back?
 
The thing is...
Those who think mains cables make a difference know this to be true. They can hear it (whether this perceived difference in sound is imagination or not who cares?).
Those who think mains cables can't make a difference know this to be true. They know the science behind it all (whether science explains everything or not who cares?).
So both camps are happy in what they know. So why bother arguing? Neither side will "win".

agreed and well put !!
 
Interesting point, but I'm struggling to think of any other area of consumer domestic electronics which has a 'high-end' and a 'mass-market end' though.

Projectors, computers, printers, dishwashers, actually pretty much anything has a high-end equivalent.

Home cinema projectors is a pretty good area to look at, and the subjective performance of projectors has far less inter-observer variability than hi-fi.
 
ben duncan talks a lot of sense on this subject and knows his onions


Shielded Mains Cables

These are like shielded signal leads, in principle. The braided metal shield intercepts ambient RF signals, but the mains earth wiring can let down the effectiveness of the necessary earthing at radio frequencies — unless you have a low-impedence RF earth connection (more on this in a moment). This matter affects the shielding of leads carrying audio signals less, because the signal connections have higher impedance — so good results can be had without needing such a low-impedance earth. A metal cable shield around mains wires can also create dangerous situations, for example if it gets disconnected, touches live, and pokes out of the mains plug, for example. Therefore extra work is required to sleeve the cable ends, regularly inspect cables, and so on.

The upshot is that metal-shielded mains wiring is recommended only in extreme situations (say, if your studio is next to a powerful radio transmitter), and only when professionally installed (an electrician is probably needed to help you install a low-impedance RF earth, for example).

Having said all that, a new class of shielded cable (called 'Lo-Rad') has recently been developed by Jenving in Sweden using conductive plastic, which is is designed to reduce any shock risk enough to be safe for home studio and domestic use.


Woven Mains Cables

Typically protected inside plastic tubing, cables of this type comprise several loosely and openly woven strands for the live and neutral sides, with the mains earth wire running up the centre. This arrangement may be hidden by curling and placing inside a jacket, but the hosepipe size of the resulting cable gives the game away. The process of weaving the cable is extremely tedious without special, huge jigs — manufacturers have huge, Victorian-style weaving machines — and towers that cost enormous sums. This is one reason why this sort of cable sells for such high sums (usually over £20 per metre).

The apparent benefit of these cables is that they provide a ratio of inductance to capacitance (also called 'characteristic impedance') that is quite different to the ordinary wiring that precedes and follows the short lengths you might use in a studio as gear cables. The result of this is that RF noise already on the line is filtered out and/or damped down. Also, due to the weaving (the live and neutral are broken into many strands which repeatedly cross each other at right angles, so that any mutually induced fields cancel) such cable acts as a sort of 'anti-aerial', meaning that the pickup of ambient RF is reduced.


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul03/articles/mainsproblems.asp
 
Is there any other area of consumer domestic electronics where power cables are thought to make a difference to the performance of the gadget? I don't think that there is. Not in itself proof of anything, but an interesting observation, perhaps.

It is an interesting observation, stuff like computers are dead clever with electricity (In silicon valley they swear by organic). There's also loads of tech savvy fat people who buy massive flat tellys to watch sport and that on. My understanding is they are really complicated and work by being plugged in. (Not fat people, tellys obviously)

Oh right Hi-fi nut just cos wyjsar makes the same point as I did ages ago he gets a 'well put'. It's not fair! Where was your 'well put' when I said it eh? Answer me that!
 
Oh no not again!.... As the whale thought whilst falling through space for infinitely improbable reasons.....

Looks like I'll have to repeat yet again that anyone hearing differences in mains cable has an over active imagination.
And yes Steven I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT :D

G' day now... life's too short for this.
 
The thing is...
Those who think mains cables make a difference know this to be true. They can hear it (whether this perceived difference in sound is imagination or not who cares?).
Those who think mains cables can't make a difference know this to be true. They know the science behind it all (whether science explains everything or not who cares?).
So both camps are happy in what they know. So why bother arguing? Neither side will "win".


Don't forget the third party.........

Those who think mains cables can't make a difference know this to be true. They know the science behind it all (but they have mouths to feed and they need the income so who cares? Time to logon and post some crap to promote this crap).


Louballoo
 
ben duncan talks a lot of sense on this subject and knows his onions


Shielded Mains Cables

These are like shielded signal leads, in principle. The braided metal shield intercepts ambient RF signals, but the mains earth wiring can let down the effectiveness of the necessary earthing at radio frequencies — unless you have a low-impedence RF earth connection (more on this in a moment). This matter affects the shielding of leads carrying audio signals less, because the signal connections have higher impedance — so good results can be had without needing such a low-impedance earth. A metal cable shield around mains wires can also create dangerous situations, for example if it gets disconnected, touches live, and pokes out of the mains plug, for example. Therefore extra work is required to sleeve the cable ends, regularly inspect cables, and so on.

The upshot is that metal-shielded mains wiring is recommended only in extreme situations (say, if your studio is next to a powerful radio transmitter), and only when professionally installed (an electrician is probably needed to help you install a low-impedance RF earth, for example).

Having said all that, a new class of shielded cable (called 'Lo-Rad') has recently been developed by Jenving in Sweden using conductive plastic, which is is designed to reduce any shock risk enough to be safe for home studio and domestic use.


Woven Mains Cables

Typically protected inside plastic tubing, cables of this type comprise several loosely and openly woven strands for the live and neutral sides, with the mains earth wire running up the centre. This arrangement may be hidden by curling and placing inside a jacket, but the hosepipe size of the resulting cable gives the game away. The process of weaving the cable is extremely tedious without special, huge jigs — manufacturers have huge, Victorian-style weaving machines — and towers that cost enormous sums. This is one reason why this sort of cable sells for such high sums (usually over £20 per metre).

The apparent benefit of these cables is that they provide a ratio of inductance to capacitance (also called 'characteristic impedance') that is quite different to the ordinary wiring that precedes and follows the short lengths you might use in a studio as gear cables. The result of this is that RF noise already on the line is filtered out and/or damped down. Also, due to the weaving (the live and neutral are broken into many strands which repeatedly cross each other at right angles, so that any mutually induced fields cancel) such cable acts as a sort of 'anti-aerial', meaning that the pickup of ambient RF is reduced.


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul03/articles/mainsproblems.asp

Couldn't that be some arguments why mains leads can make a diffrence? Just sayin....
 
Third party being those who haven't tried or don't "know", I guess, Lou. In which case the sensible thing to do is for the non-believers to say "don't waste you're money" and the believers to point out firms who offer 30 or 60 day sale or return such as Mark Grant or Clearer Audio, or to suggest buying second hand. That way those who fall in to neither of the camps that I mentioned don't lose out if they want to try out fancy mains cables.
Or by third party do you mean dealers? Again, do it on sale or return so the dealer only gets the sale if the punter likes the product.
 
Third party being those who haven't tried or don't "know", I guess, Lou. In which case the sensible thing to do is for the non-believers to say "don't waste you're money" and the believers to point out firms who offer 30 or 60 day sale or return such as Mark Grant or Clearer Audio, or to suggest buying second hand. That way those who fall in to neither of the camps that I mentioned don't lose out if they want to try out fancy mains cables.
Or by third party do you mean dealers? Again, do it on sale or return so the dealer only gets the sale if the punter likes the product.

That's just too sensible. We can't have people making up their own minds in the comfort of thrir own homes without a salesman present, can we?

People need to be protected from themselves.
 
My recent experience with mains leads.

Bought a couple of Russ Andrews Reference PowerKords cheap about three years.
They did make a difference (believe what you will).

Fast forward to last year.

I bought a twin lead silver Hydra (cheap again). Then forgot all about trying them out.

Fast forward to last week.

I bought a pre-amp for a mate and tested it in my system last week.
While I was plugging and unplugging my gear I decided to try this Hydra.

Sounded shite !!!!!

The bass sounded more focused but the mid and upper ranges sounded very "splashy", especially the percussion.
Maybe the bass sounded more focused because the rest was so unfocused.

I left everything hooked up for a few days, but no cigar........ Still shite.

Restored the Russ Andrews cables ......... No shit !!!!!!!

And no I`m not talking (or printing) shite, it happened.

Like I say, my experience. Believe or disbelieve .......... whatever.
 
People simply will not understand that what they experience (The veracity of which I believe completely) can not be generalised.
 
Swapped out/downgraded the interconnect temporarily on my Rega isis to Preamp today. Went form my usual Cardas Golden Ref to the supplied profi/rega cable.


The difference, the reduction in all things good was MINDBLOWING

like going from a NAC552 to a NAC12 :cool:
 
Pinklingsssss! I grow weary of the battle. Wait for me. I shall be mercccccciful, and quick!

Gorn.jpg



Joe / Gorning

thanks for this.

It sent me on a little memory lane googling, back to ''the adventure game''.

300px-Arg_4_argonds.jpg


I doubt you saw it in Canada joe, but I think you would have liked it as a kid.
 


advertisement


Back
Top