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Homelessness

We went into Manchester centre yesterday to do some very middle class things (visit the Christmas market, buy some artisan coffee beans, renew theatre season tickets, that sort of thing). I've been into Manchester fairly frequently over many years, and I can't remember a time when there were so many people sleeping rough. It used to be that they were confined to parts of town I tended to avoid anyway, so perhaps I didn't see them. Now though, they are everywhere and impossible to miss.

As a kid, in the sixties, we had a school holiday to That London, which is where I saw my first homeless people and rough sleepers. I still remember how shocked I was. It still shocks me, but the scale of it in my home town is something I've never seen before. I honestly don't know how to react. I don't give change, partly because I don't want to feed a habit and perpetuate a problem and I don't really know whether I'm helping or making things worse, but also, pragmatically, because I can't give to every one of them I encounter and I can't single one or two out for help and avoid the gaze of the others.

I do give to charities like Shelter, and Crisis, and I hope that does more good for these unfortunate people than my giving a quid or two at random might do, but honestly, I don't really know what to do for the best. Not voting Tory is a given, by the way.
 
Sadly homelessness is a political subject like Fracking,house of Lords, Brexit, universal credit,terror, etc etc right done that today,next,next...problem is that politicians are not bothered by commitment or decency.
 
It shows how endemic (and bad) it has become because in a short period of time its run to two pages on an audio forum. It is shocking that we tolerate such an obscenity in a seemingly 'wealth country'.
 
Some people own more than one house, why?
I only use it for my holidays?
We need an escape?
Bloss
Some people work in the centre of a city but live elsewhere in a family home. I've done this. Usually I end up in an hotel at £70 a night, but if it were a long term situation I'd consider a 2nd home. If you were funding hotels at £300-350pw then a little flat makes a lot of sense.

You could ask a secondary question - why do people live in big houses? The answer is because they can and because housing is not taxed in this country. To do so would be political suicide. We all want affordable housing, but none of us are prepared to pay more tax for the privilege of living in a big house on an overcrowded island. You could get 2 houses in the space of mine, and parking. But it's me pension, innit?
 
I've been into Manchester fairly frequently over many years, and I can't remember a time when there were so many people sleeping rough. It used to be that they were confined to parts of town I tended to avoid anyway, so perhaps I didn't see them. Now though, they are everywhere and impossible to miss.

It is just stunning. I don’t think there is anywhere in Manchester city centre where you could compose a picture without getting at least one in frame. There are just everywhere you look to the point I suspect the quoted figures are below the reality. As stated upthread any society should be judged on how it treats its poorest and least able, and modern Tory Britain is one huge epic fail. I hate the fact I’m actually becoming numb to it. I now kind of accept it as part of the experience of going out, and that is very wrong. It is a political issue and this shower need booting out as hard as possible (Heidi Alexander notably excepted as she actually seems to have a functioning moral compass). The Tories and their Universal Benefit debacle own this one IMO.
 
I honestly don't know how to react. I don't give change, partly because I don't want to feed a habit and perpetuate a problem and I don't really know whether I'm helping or making things worse, but also, pragmatically, because I can't give to every one of them I encounter and I can't single one or two out for help and avoid the gaze of the others.
The consensus is that you should give food or offer to take them for food. If they are genuine they'll agree. If not then they won't want to give up a lucrative pitch, and they know that they can't trade a couple of bread rolls and a packet of cheese for drugs or alcohol. It's generally known that a beggar with a good pitch can make quite a lot of cash money in a day, certainly enough to pay for a room in a hostel and a day's food. However this sadly isn't the main driver.
 
There have always been a few homeless. However, the MASSIVE increase has nothing to do with the World Economic Crisis, or the EU, or anything similar. It is entirely caused by Tory Govt policy. End of.

Also as hinted above. Mealy mouthed crocodile tears and platitudes from the likes of May and her crew are just insulting to everyone who has a brain. I've said it more than once. Don't judge them by what they say.. but by what they do.
 
some brilliant points and a subject close to my heart . may have said this before but we had a homeless man sleeping rough here in the doorway of a childrens centre . i had to clear up his little bag of `poo` he kindly left several times . it was a real source of angnst in our community , we tried to help him but he didn`t want it. i think he was an ilegal immigrant

so good to hear the experinces of those who have actually been homeless , one thing mullardman said was
Sale of 'Investment' property to absentee owners/landlords, pushing up prices. now many cannot afford houses and some are in a shocking state that only landlords will do them up and then they can be a place of housing

last year i renovated a dreadful place that was on the market unsold for months becuase no one would buy it , [full of artex and in bad shape from tenants] it cost around 24k and 9months of slog and dust to get it up to scratch and now a lovely family live there at a very reasonable affordable rent in warmth and comfort .

last week i went to ikea to buy a present and in the short distance from the bus [150 yards] to ikea i passed at least 7 folks sitting in the snow presumably homeless and it really is upsetting . i do know though there is a chap who sits in the middle of a busy intersection in birmingham . he just smiles at the folks and holds out his cup and he makes 300 pounds per week and has a house .
 
i do know though there is a chap who sits in the middle of a busy intersection in birmingham . he just smiles at the folks and holds out his cup and he makes 300 pounds per week and has a house .

Shoot him, and the scumbag politicians ripping the arse out of those less fortunate.


bloss
 
i do know though there is a chap who sits in the middle of a busy intersection in birmingham . he just smiles at the folks and holds out his cup and he makes 300 pounds per week and has a house .
Is this something you 'know' know, or actually know from first-hand experience? It has the smell of an urban myth about it.
 
chap i know met him and he told him , it would not surprise me if it was true but didn`t get it first hand . maybe he was bragging
 
Is this something you 'know' know, or actually know from first-hand experience? It has the smell of an urban myth about it.
It fits with comments made by police dealing with a pair of homeless drug addicts in Bristol. They said that if the pair split up and begged outside shopping centres they could make quite a lot of money. £300pw is £45 a day. I'm sure you can make that, if you stand outside (say) the station at rush hour. If you reckon 12 hours a day you need an average of 4 people an hour to drop a pound in. That's not many. The snag is that addictions will take every penny you have.
 
Not so much about giving Bloss, more to do with taking that has caused the sharp increase in homelessness,
Until the government stop this, it will rise further, unfortunately May has little time for the non working community, works pays is their motto, it sounds great, it's simple & to the point, but with little substance to back it up, it should read, not working could end your life under this government so get a f^cking job or else, this would be far more apt under Tory rule & is precisely what May would really like to shout with all her might when in parliament, the only time she gets passionate is when trading blows with Corbyn on the benefits issue, you then see the blood start to boil, it's the only time her guard shifts a little, she really is a nasty piece of work.
Any government which feeds hate propaganda to the public needs outing IMO, Cameron started it off back in 2010, it took little time for the public to respond, it will take some shift in public thinking to shake it off.
 
There was a recent BBC series, Drugsland, where it was implied good begging could net addicts enough to sustain a serious smack habit, i.e. £100+ a day. The episode to watch there is Series 1/2 Heroin Love Story. People are on the whole very kind, but there is a strong argument to be made that this public intervention is not the best way forward. As stated earlier this is a *political* problem, addiction is a mental illness that needs proper medical care. Obviously it is impossible for a passer by to tell whether someone is an addict looking to finance their next hit or someone sleeping rough for any other reason. Personally I’d prefer to give to homeless charities, hostels, food banks etc than folk on the street, though this may be mistaken (e.g. giving straight to an addict may actually reduce crime). Regardless it is the government that I am furious at, as a tax-paying citizen I demand this be dealt with and I do not care if they stick another penny or whatever on the basic rate to do it. Taxation = civilisation. Low taxation always corresponds to a lack thereof.
 
There are two houses on our street that have now been empty for 6 months. The name of the landlord? The Church of England.
 
I get the 'have some gratitude' aspect of that saying, but it does seem to suggest that God has the power to prevent everyone from being homeless but doesn't. That's disappointing, assuming the premiss of God existing in the first place to be correct, of course.

I was simply using an idiom, with the "god" in a purely abstract, symbolic sense representing the universe or whatever. I was trying to express my gratitude over the good luck I have enjoyed when I so easily could have found me in the same situation as the homeless people I see.
 
My heroin addiction and homelessness was in the late 60s, in London. The government of the time (Labour) decided to stop private doctors prescribing heroin and cocaine, opening at least one NHS clinic (in Victoria) to prescribe heroin, initially, and then change that to Methadone. They gave large amounts to get addicts to sign up, reducing it as the doctors were phased out. Methadone may well assuage the physical effects of addiction, but it is a joyless but still addictive drug, so creating an addicted but dreary group of people. And of course the supply of safe heroin and cocaine dried up, opening the gates to first the Chinese and then European drug rings, which exist to make money. This started the current spiral of crime to feed habits. As a registered addict (private or state) I didn't have to steal, nor risk diseases from re-using needles. Boots was my drug supplier!
In central London, if a junkie sold to kids he was liable to get a kicking, but of course the gangs don't care, they just want to increase their customer base. So in this case at least, Labour caused the explosion of addicts!
And as for being homeless, at the time you ran the risk of being arrested for vagrancy, which was defined as not having enough money to support yourself, so that was treated as criminal too. I don't know if that law is still in effect, but would appear to be unenforceable now anyway.
I lived in Manchester for 29 years, until 11 years ago, and it sounds as if the street homelessness there has increased massively since then.
I consider myself fortunate to have escaped that life, but I know there are plenty who, for one reason or another, feel unable to use the "official" bodies set up to cater for them. So although I have given to a homeless charity I will still give to individuals on the street.
BTW, refusing to give to one because you can't give to all is a cop out to make yourself feel justified in not giving. Find a better excuse.
 
I don't anymore give to anyone on my regular route e.g. on the way to or from work. I'll be brutally honest: it turns into a tax to walk my route! If I'm out and about in a random place then fine. We give a regular amount to charity every month too - it's not that I won't help out.
 
One of the advantages of living in Scotland is that the SNP - leaving their ultimate ambition to one side - are a progressive party that aims to change the way society treats its disadvantaged. In the case of heroin abuse, the SNP had hoped to introduce a 'fix room' for people to use heroin in in Glasgow (link), but the Home Office put the brakes on that by clearly stating that possession of heroin is illegal, end of. The SNP now aim to make drug legislation a devolved matter so they can proceed as originally planned.

Not only does the SNP aim to make drug abuse a health matter rather than a criminal one, they also aim to make petty crime - a symptom of poverty in many cases - a social matter rather than a criminal one by changing the historic presumption towards imprisonment to community-based justice with a strong emphasis on rehabilitation and community payback.

Drugs like heroin might never become legalised in the way they once were pre-legislation, but there's hope for addicts in Scotland if nowhere else in Britain for their addiction to become a genuine health and social issue rather than the stigmatised criminal issue it is at present.
 
I agree totally, possession and use of drugs should not be a criminal matter, it's a health and social issue. In this regard I think we should treat all drugs a little bit like we do alcohol and tobacco.

If someone runs over someone or robs someone, that is a criminal issue whether they are high/drunk or want to get high/drunk at the time, or not.
 


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