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Headphones only?

Indeed the 650 is slightly veiled, I mainly intend to use them for large classical orchestral, just got them from Massdrop.
I hope they will work.
Never really liked a friends 600 but these were a bargain, even more if no tax had to be paid.

The 880 maked my ears hot somehow but a great sounding HP if dedicated amplified.
 
darrenyeats said:
Don't get me wrong, these speakers hooked me into hi-fi when my Dad bought a pair in the 80s. But I don't think electrostatics are a better technology for speakers, I'd say they have their own compromises like other technologies. Probably the biggest is their directionality
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Maybe applies to 57s (had a pair for a while) but not necessarily to other ESLs. My big Quads are less directional than the big ProAcs that preceded them. M.L.s are much more directional, but they're hybrids.

I've never heard ES headphones, though, and wonder if the difference from, say, my 650s to Stax or similar would be like going from moving coil speakers to ESLs (faster, lack of colouration, transparency)
 
Mmmmm... I’ve just scratched a life-long itch and bought a pair of 57s so it’ll be interesting to compare them to the Stax. I’ve no doubt whatsover about the superiority of electrostatic headphones over conventional (although good dynamic phones get close, no question), and though I only got the 57s on Saturday and have barely had a chance to listen since setting them up (sub-optimally) at home - as I’ve been away Sun-today for work - I think there are more similarities than differences. No question whatsoeover that the 57s are a complete bargain, but I won’t be selling my actives just in case I ultimately can’t live with the ESLs... one of the things that attracted me to the ESLs was this reputation of being a superb low-level listening speaker, and that’s definitely true. Anyway, this thread is about headphones not ESLs, but I did want to chip in. PS. HD600s sounding like ESLs? No way, unless the HF panels of the ESLs are shot. I respect the 600s, but they’re shut-in and slow compared to ESLs (or Stax).
 
Im a big headphone listener and have tried/owned virtually everything under the sun, I’ve seen a big change over the last few years. It used to the case that you had to go Stax if you wanted absolute transparency and coil headphones if you wanted depth, power and rhythm for rock pop.
This just isn’t the case anymore. The Senn 800S’s sound extremely close to the mid range Stax’s. Up the range I don’t think the Stax 009’s are at the top of the tree any more. Particularly the Focal Utopias have all the transparency and detail the Stax’s have but better rhythm, drive, bass and weight.

Comparing Stax against Senn 650’s isn’t a fair comparison, they’re at diff price points and the 650’s wouldn’t be rebound for their transparent sound, even in the Senn range....
 
I've been using headphones as my main system for a year or so now and I still miss being able to listen using some great speakers but domestic harmony comes first. I've been through the gamut of high-end 'phones and have currently got Utopias, HD800S' and HiFiMan HE-6. Favourite at the moment is the HE-6 driven by the all valve Allnic 5000 amp - superb transparency with a solid bottom end. Makes me want to try the Susvara's but the wallet is firmly closed for the moment. Still looking for a great pair of closed 'phones - the HD820's could be interesting. Haven't really got on with Stax - heard the SR009's and was pretty underwhelmed but the Sonoma One has rekindled an interest in trying electrostatics but........where does it end??
 
mikechadwick said:
I've been using headphones as my main system for a year or so now and I still miss being able to listen using some great speakers but domestic harmony comes first. I've been through the gamut of high-end 'phones and have currently got Utopias, HD800S' and HiFiMan HE-6. Favourite at the moment is the HE-6 driven by the all valve Allnic 5000 amp - superb transparency with a solid bottom end. Makes me want to try the Susvara's but the wallet is firmly closed for the moment. Still looking for a great pair of closed 'phones - the HD820's could be interesting. Haven't really got on with Stax - heard the SR009's and was pretty underwhelmed but the Sonoma One has rekindled an interest in trying electrostatics but........where does it end??
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Hi Mike
If you're looking for some closed backs and haven't tried the Ether C's give them a go, they are very good. Looking forward to trying the 820's too and still waiting for Sennheiser to bring something out to compete in this ever growing £4k range....
 
I tried the Ether C Flows but didn't really get on with them - maybe I was too impatient but they never really seemed to offer any real insight into the music, it was all a bit flat. Could have been a bad combination with the amp I was using.
 
My partner is extremely sensitive to sound and loud music gives her really bad headaches so I use headphones exclusively. Hd800s are nice but you'd have to spend plenty on speakers to come close to the immersion resolution, tonality and musicality of the Focal Utopias. And no acoustic issues. Ear hair is my only acoustic treatment needed.
 
I have systems all over the house, office, living room, hobby shop, home theater.

But 99% of my serious listening is done on my Stax headphone system.
 
Had 009s for around 2months before they went. My conclusion is that the very minuscule improvements you get over HD800s just isn’t worth the crazy amount of extra it costs. The Macintosh 100 Headphone amp was absolutely the best and pleasurable sound I have ever heard. Nothing I’ve heard, demo’d or owned came close (in my experience of course).
 
Weiss-Man said:
Had 009s for around 2months before they went. My conclusion is that the very minuscule improvements you get over HD800s just isn’t worth the crazy amount of extra it costs. The Macintosh 100 Headphone amp was absolutely the best and pleasurable sound I have ever heard. Nothing I’ve heard, demo’d or owned came close (in my experience of course).
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Interesting re the Macintosh - haven't heard it. What amps were you comparing it to?
 
Interesting that you say the improvements that the 009s brought over HD800s were minuscule. I found the move even to L700s to be quite a huge step up, musically, although the HD800s still pip the L700s for 'air'. On every other characteristic, I'd say the Stax setup whips the HD800s. I used the HD800s with the superb SPL Phonitor amp, though admittedly I wasn't driving them balanced which I believe may have helped in some areas. Stax 009s have a reputation of needing very careful amp matching, and there's also the matter of some of the 'duff' pairs that are out there (see HeadFi huge Stax threads about this...)
 
I don’t use headphones exclusively, but sometimes the most magically enjoyable music appreciation does come through them: HD 600s in tow of a Little Dot Mark III [valve headphone amp] fed from an Audiolab MDAC [usb, MAC MINI, iTunes, AIFF files, mainly from CDs].

I run a mono [made in 1957] ESL with a Quad II Forty, and this is mighty fine, but I fear for the electricity running the Q II. The Little Dot runs on less than an incandescent light bulb. Otherwise [mainly for DVDs] I feed a Tivoli Model One radio that does not deserve to sounds as well as it does. Perhaps it is a case of source first trumping expectations with the MDAC, which is a supreme example of an un-lauded minor masterpiece.

ATB from George

PS: Edit. The HD 600 headphone does not go well straight off the MDAC headphone output. Interesting that the LD III can drive with exuberance but the MDAC cannot!
 
For a couple of months this year, due to amp repairs and upgrades, all my listening was through 'phones. I found that the HD800/Lehmann setup I'd always found quite satisfactory, wasn't up to the job of being my only source. Listening more, and more seriously, I started finding faults that hadn't been apparent before. Specifically, it lacked depth and resolution at the bottom-end.

I ended up buying a new amp, a Luxman P1-u, and the HD800s, driven by that, are just beautiful. I can, and do, listen for hours.

To chime in on Stax, the only rig of theirs that's ever blown me away was an insanely expensive one I heard in Tokyo. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something about Stax that doesn't do it for me. Personal taste only.
 
What is about Stax - you love 'em or hate 'em - a bit like marmite. I found the 007Mk2 to be much more rewarding than the 009 driven by the Trilogy electrostatic amp but really no big improvement over the Focal Utopia + Trilogy 933 combo
 
Hello Mike, sorry for the delay replying. The sound via the Macintosh was just beautiful, detailed, smooth, spacious with a taught but deep bass. While I had the 009, I paired them with a 007t Kimik, fed via balanced cables from a Rega Valve Isis. A £12,000 headphone system that wasn’t especially captivating.
 
The Stax 009s are very transparent to the amp driving them. With Stax amps they can come across as very detailed and bass shy. With the Trilogy H1 there is much more depth and body but some high frequency roll off. You wouldn’t think you were listening to the same ‘phones.
 
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