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Harbeth sHL5 vs HL5+ vs HL5 anniversary.

Rockmeister

Rockmeister

pfm Member
Just back from testing the above so a quick thought share.
Music. Vusi Mahlesela, Nick Jones tribute, 'Way to Blue' and Robert Plant's 'Raising Sand'.
Kit was not mine...Arcam amp A29 and CD s37. Both a bit warmer and softer than the Luxman duo at home.

1st up. My own sHL5's (to 'get' the room/kit sound).
Less defined than usual, overwarm upper bass, little low bass, good mids, esp female vocals, but loose soundstage andlacking some defenition. Top sweet but not extended. Very listenable however, and lovely in a relaxed and old fashioned way.

Next, HL5+.
Sound stage gets immediate 'focus' with all instruments and voices tightly positioned. Tops extend with some zing where zing exists. Mid range better than ever, female vocals now have real character and emotion. Bass though! Much better. It extends a tad more, but critical upper bass now has more control and snap, instruments are better portrayed and the whole is better hung together. A LARGE step up. Some of the old HL5s warmth remains...this is still an HL5 but clearer, more informative and more enjoyable. No (or few) nagging doubts still remain.

Finally the anniversary.
A brief note to say that Alan S has refused to be drawn on exactly what was done to these to change them from the +. Some things (like the lovely veneer/ classy binding posts and shiny badges) are obvious but what else? He doesn't say, remarking just that the financial gloves came off and they made it as good as they possibly could...
Whatever, I was not expecting much and...
was wrong.
The soundstage expands. I was so taken unawares about that change that we went and checked phase, to make sure something wasn't amiss! It spreads. Evertything still is in precise focus but it just gets bigger.
Bass is even better. More texture to the bass lines, a shade deeper before it warms and fades and even better at following instrument lines. This is as good as any thin walled cabs get.
Mids are now astonishing. Harbeh always did Mid range but this is the peak. Enough said.
Top end is still sweet but similarly extends with no false lift at all, just detail and life.
What is best however is that it all hangs together to make such a lovely sound. Maybe there is just a hint of the old Harbeth here,,,something of what is going on in the guts of the design remains, but it's not modern, it's just more, and better.
MUCH MUCH better.

I bought some :)

Are they worth the extra over the +? Yup. It's a very fair price increase IMO.
Is the plus worth it's price over the sHL5? Double yup.
 
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I had one of the first UK pairs of SHL5+ in June 2015 (Dave had a demo pair and I ordered them on the spot) and changed them for the Anniversary in August this year. Throw a bit more power at them, then add a sub for the lowest 15Hz ...
The bass is so good I often turn the sub off (from the Devialet rermote) and I do not use SAM.
The SHL5 have the old Radial driver, so the difference is to be expected.
 
I'll check your thread nut! Sorry but they are both a must listen:)
Tony, the pluses are between 3300 and 3500 depending on veneer, the anniversaries are 4400, so an extra 1000.
The + make the most sense financially...they have 85/90 % of what the Anni's do and are a HUGE jump from the old superHL5.
I'd guess half of that extra 1000 is in components and materials, the rest is sound and worth it to me.
 
The literature is not very clear but I assume that the Anniversary edition uses the same box, same drivers (new-look super-tweeter probaly means same driver), same crossover.
In that case, the only difference that could eventually make a tiny bit of difference is the super-tweeter protection bar but even that would be minimal.

• the latest WBT-nextgen binding posts makes no difference

• a new-look super-tweeter with protection bar may make a tiny bit of difference

• and Harbeth branded British-made audio grade poly capacitors probably makes no difference

• Each speaker will include the Harbeth 40th anniversary limited edition front and back badges no difference

• as well as a metallic black and gold anniversary grille badge. no difference

• In addition to this, the SHL5plus anniversary model also includes custom bi-wire links no difference

• custom Harbeth internal cables. no difference

• Each celebratory model will also be packaged in our new Harbeth branded cotton bags. no difference

But whilst these changes won't make any difference to the speaker's performance, they may may trigger the perception of audible differences.
Price can also influence one's judgement.
 
Well Tuggy baby, that's the second time you posted that opinion (and is RED too).

If you read my thread you'll know I disagree.

40 years I've been listening to HiFi. I've been in the trade, shown at shows and been as cynical as anyone you'll find. But I also have enough audio memory to compare 2 speakers one after the other. I have described what I heard.
You are welcome to your opinion of my mental fragility, but,
it just ain't so.

and finally, when you go and audition them to hear for yourself (?) might you consider that, if expectation bias exists, it must work both ways. You can as easily convince yourself of NO change, as you can of change.
 
Folk who listen to stuff with their eyes do amuse me! I can see some argument here given Alan Shaw’s objectivist reductio ad absurdum stance where only what he says makes a difference and the only things worth paying good money for are those things he sells (i.e. not amps, sources, stands etc), but even so I’ll only be judging any results with my ears. If the fancy anniversary editions sound better they *are* better, even if those differences were achieved with changes Shaw and other’s entrenched views would previously have dismissed!

PS The area I’d be listening to the closest is the crossover zone between the radial bass and metal tweeter as this is what has resulted in both pairs of Harbeths I’ve owned (C7ES2 & SHL5) leaving. I’m well on record as not liking metal dome tweeters though and feel this way about the vast majority of speakers that use them.
 
Nice. The Super HL5 40th Anniversary must be special if it does surpass the performance of the SHL5 Plus.

If the improvements are appreciable or tangible, the "British-made audio grade poly capacitors" must have played the biggest role in the change, followed by the "custom internal cables". Not too sure about the WBT binding posts but the rest are purely cosmetic, hence do not contribute anything to the sound.

I recalled the moment when the SHL5s were swapped with the SHL5 Plus. First few seconds into the track I knew this was it. Your description on the differences between the SHL5 and SHL5+ largely mirrors mine as well. The most significant impact is with deep bass and upper bass. The SHL5+ sounds a lot cleaner than the SHL5. There is really no turning back after experiencing the +.
 
To be honest I bet even the veneer changes makes a slight difference! Different woods have different hardnesses and in a deliberately resonant BBC box a change of laminate may well shift the overall resonance by a few Hz. Insignificant, but everything matters! I've never had the opportunity to do it but it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if otherwise identical speakers with different veneers sounded very slightly different, and my money would be on the softest most inert wood!
 
Rockmeister said:
Well Tuggy baby, that's the second time you posted that opinion (and is RED too).

If you read my thread you'll know I disagree.

40 years I've been listening to HiFi. I've been in the trade, shown at shows and been as cynical as anyone you'll find. But I also have enough audio memory to compare 2 speakers one after the other. I have described what I heard.
You are welcome to your opinion of my mental fragility, but,
it just ain't so.

and finally, when you go and audition them to hear for yourself (?) might you consider that, if expectation bias exists, it must work both ways. You can as easily convince yourself of NO change, as you can of change.
Click to expand...

I agree with your last sentence: expectation bias works both ways.
A comprehensive set of measurements would help here.

And as I said, I'm not contesting your listening impressions.
But if the two speakers are physically identical (same box, same drivers, same crossover though with different components) then there shouldn't be as significant as you describe audible differences.
 
There are companies that offer upgrades to crossover components at a significant premium, such as ART. So no doubt this will make a difference. But I'd want to know how much more the posh caps in the crossover cost, since I don't imagine it will be too much. For a £1000 extra, I'm thinking about £300 for a specialist veneer, but otherwise its very small money for the changes. The new cap on the super tweeter is sensible, because its easy to brush past that driver and scratch it, but I would expect its cost per unit to be measured in pence. Otherwise its just cables and caps.

Oh, and one other thing; the decent bi-wire links will make a difference, but replacements are easily bought for the Plus version for about £30-50.

Ultimately though, the fact is that Harbeths look the business in a Walnut veneer.

Great news that Rockmeister has solved his speaker dilemma without getting some of those newfangled floor standers.
 
I used the SHL5+ for 2 years and the SHL5+ Anniversary for 5 months, so I should have some idea.

I also didn't buy them hoping they were better - my reason is the floor and furniture in my listening room is all walnut and the Rosewood, however nice, clashed. So if the improvement was only cosmetic I would have been happy, and the money wasn't an issue either, thank heavens. I sold the SHL5+ to a guy in the USA and got almost all my money back.

The Anniversary do seem to have that extra last bit of performance all round, but it takes time to appreciate it, I listen to music rather than audio, but there are times when they have you thinking that sounds bloody marvellous. The midrange was always good but you now think someone's hiding in the cabinets.

Alan Shaw is as nice as he is obstinate, don't think he realises how infuriatingly opinionated he is some of the time. That 'all amps are the same stuff' is BS and I know that thanks to him because his speakers demonstrate that amps sound different. He will tell me I'm wrong until the end of days. I just enjoy his speakers and most days are glad for his considerable efforts.
 
In which case, it's about my use of 'significant' :)
I can only define this for those who own or know sHL5's quite well.
I came to 5's via 7's. The largest change there is scale. Although the 7's are precise (my least fave harb speaker in fact...I think the overall philosphy and that cab size somehow don't gell, tho both Snell and later, Audionote made it work with the J model), they are over clean IMO, and my worry was that the modern 5+ would go too far down this route of leanness. I imagine most Harbeth lovers LIKE the upper bass warmth, or why buy them?
Anyway, the older s model was not great at imaging, or presenting much sense of scale, and JUST didn't make it into that ethereal realm of speakers where the recording room acoustic is easily sensed. It was a speaker with a toe in the high end door, but balanced with so few obvious faults that for many, it was a very acceptable compromise.
I've alread said what the + does to this design. I'll have a wild stab at proportion or score to try to add some perspective.

On sound only, If the original scored X, then the + is X x 1.4, and the anniversary X x 1.5.

???? Well. OF COURSE some of the additions don't add to the sound, but as a sales bonus, they do matter.

Consider this.
I just sold my sHL5's, in part X, at a dealer, for £250 less than I paid 7 years ago. An 11% loss in 7 years...as a Part X????
The anniversary is a limited edition, it LOOKS fabulous. Think it was a bad buy now?
For me, it made very, very good sense, and add in that the law of diminishing returns is active in HiFi and the extra 1000 seems to me to be very proportionate.

I've not written about the comparisons I made along the way btw, since it's pointless really. It's my ears that decided I love this sound.
 
Why is it limited if its so much better ?

Nobody would want to purchase the SHL5+ now based on the above
 
I imagine for those inclined, upgrading components on their plus models wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility.

It's a shame Harbeth don't offer upgrades from model to model. Not even for cold hard cash. I've asked.
 
PerF said:
Why is it limited if its so much better ?

Nobody would want to purchase the SHL5+ now based on the above
Click to expand...

I don't know sorry, but part of the value of a limited edition is that its limited...hence the name and some of the price increase.
As to 'nobody will want....' that's not right, or shouldn't be. I tried to say above that the BIG change is from the 5's to the 5+'s. That's where most of what you get happens, and it's a fabulous speaker, the plus.
If the anni didn't exist I'd have been happy as larry with the plus model (as would Mrs Rock, who prefers Eucalyptus :) ) and if the part exchange hadn't been so good (thanks to HiFiCorner) its the plus that I would have bought I think. £1000 onto the cartridge budget would be a lyra Kleos instead of the Dynavector 20. Something to ponder on.
 
If you bought from Hifi-corner, did you listen to the Spendor in comparison? They are probably the only shop in the UK that sell both.
 
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