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Frugalhorns on tour

This is a nice thread, good to see these frugal Horns out in the wild. It's worth mentioning for those who are interested that there are 3 Frugal Horn designs available. The mk3, the XL and the Lite. I assume these are the Mk3 @Martin J ? Which drivers have you got in them? The XL is the larger version designed for the Mark Audio drivers I sell (which is what James has got) and then there are my own favourites the Lite using the diminutive 5-6cm drivers. I've mostly got all 3 here and am happy to lend them to folk as well or you can come here or come to one of my events etc.
 
@ Mark King - this weekend looks good for a demo, drop me a line. I've had a few sessions this week, interesting results, will post later when more time.
 
Having just looked at frugal-horn.com I can see mine are MK3s. I'd be interested to hear the larger XLs one day.
 
separate thread started on xl version

I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the XL’s Phil, given you’re used to much larger Speakers. They’re a bit fussy regarding placement, but once you’ve got them dialled in they sound great.
 
Right, not a review but initial thoughts.

Having got them back to my place the night before I wheeled these into the lounge and hooked them up to the Amcron STA2, set up a CD and left them to chunter away playing a bit of light dinner jazz for 20 minutes as suggested by Martin. Well, the 20 minutes of light dinner jazz wasn't Martin's idea. It wasn't what I played either, but it was inoffensive enough and just intended to warm them up if they were feeling unloved.

Placement isn't straightforward, they need to be against a wall or maybe even a corner but they are very deep. They are now either side of a fireplace, in fact one is on the hearth. Both are backed up to the wall.

The first disc into the machine was Bruce Springsteen, Born in the USA. Not his finest hour but "Downbound Train" is a great track. Yeah, I know, cars and girls, but he does it well. The Frugalhorns sounded great, the bass reproduction is that they reproduce the frequencies but without the "bump-thump" of conventional speakers. The voices are very forward indeed, the rest of the band less so. It reminds me very much of electrostatics in that regard, in that the bass rolls out but has no slam to it. This is not resolved by turning it up, as you increase the volume you just get more of everything until it starts to sound a little blurred and confused. Not an ideal speaker for a teenegers' party then.

I changed discs to something a bit different, more downbeat in general. More Springsteen (sorry), but now in contemplative mode, on the soundtrack of Dead Man Walking. No drums here, no amplified guitars, just an acoustic guitar and close-miked voice. Wow. This was more like it. The voice was alive and in the room, the lack of bass slam wasn't a problem. 2nd track is Johnny Cash, more of the same. His gravelly vocals just spring forward, like the ESLs they do just bring the singer into the room. The same goes for the whole album, there's some Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, with and without Eddie Vedder, and he brings a band playing acoustic stringed instruments, all of which just sound as if they are in the room.

OK, let's be silly. ACDC. Well, I tried. I won't bother again. Heavily processed and amplified music just doesn't work here. They have a single pair of small drivers. If you want to reproduce drums, get a 12" or 15" driver.

Next was an amplifier change. I was aware of the 200+ wpc of the Amcron, and I know that like a throttle it works in both directions, but horns have never been power monsters. I have a TPA 3116 based chip amp, probably about 30 wpc RMS. Here goes. The results were much the same as with the Amcron. I must say that if you don't have the real estate for the Amcron then this little grey fag packet is well worth a try. I know some people can't get on with Class D, maybe they can hear something I can't, but I found it very pleasant. It's an amp that adds no colour of its own, it's very neutral. Again with the louder passages with amplified instruments it sounded a little confused, whether this was because it was beginning to clip a little or the power supply drooping I couldn't tell. However it was encouraging that the Amcron did the same, and for that to be driven into clipping you'd need PA speakers and me over the back of the sofa with my ears bleeding.

That's all for now. I haven't yet tried them with valves, and I compared them briefly to some Monitor Audio 2-ways to discover that the MA's had the voices pushed further back into the mix, less detail, but more slam, if that's your thing. The MA's offer a much more traditional presentation, as you'd expect with a decent small speaker. There is little true bass, but lots of slam that gives the impression of bass.

No comparison yet with the 4x ESL 57s. However the ESLs do take up half the room and were you to buy new they would cost as much as a small car, so let's be realistic. If they weren't sensational they wouldn't have been dominating my lounge for 8 years. I might be eccentric but I'm not mad enough to have something so ugly for so long unless it does something special.

More later, bedtime.
 
This is a lovely idea, nice one Martin. I sold a pair last year (having decided the larger xl suitsmy room better) but I wish I’d thought of doing this instead. Hats off.
 
Not an ideal speaker for a teenagers party no. They are brilliant at what they do well though. I got into building these and selling the drivers because about 3 years ago someone asked me to build a pair for them. Given that at that time the speakers I had at home were a pair of ATC SCM 50 and a pair of my own active speakers. I think we can all agree that the ATC is a reference speaker? My active speakers were even more effortless and composed. I put the frugal horns on for a bit of a laugh at thier expense before they were picked up. I was completely blown away, of course as you mention the bass doesn't have huge slam but is very tunefully, driven a little more, complex stuff can fall apart but in almost every other area they were just much better than the other 2 speakers. It's been the only time in HiFi when my jaw really hit the floor, unable to really understand how this was happening. It was at that point I decided to pursue building and selling them and the drivers. I actually don't sell a huge amount of the Mk3, mostly I sell the XL and the Lite, the XL is hugely popular, the Lite is my favourite, it's so dynamic, of course at the expense of slam again. The XL does bass aplenty for most folk though. What is nice about the bass these speakers produce though is the tunefulness, they aren't tuned to a narrow Q like ported speakers or even TL and the group delay is very low so what you do get is just right.
 
@ Mark King - this weekend looks good for a demo, drop me a line. I've had a few sessions this week, interesting results, will post later when more time.

Thanks Steve for the call. This weekend didn’t happen but hopefully we can sort something out in the near future.

Cheers
Mark
 
we played some of bach`s organ toccata tonight and they do reproduce it well . great write up steve

the xl must be fairly different to the ones you have as they don`t sound like that at all here . I played some rock by amarok and it was absolutely brilliant . very enjoyable with plenty of grunt

 
I was lucky enough to be able to buy both the mk3 and the xls that Ian on lenco heaven/aos built when he decided to go for an eikona based build.

2z9e7og.jpg


The mk3s were great fun, with astonishing imaging and incredible midrange palpability but they did rather loose out to the xls in what is admittedly a larger room here than suits the 7 driver.

The xls bought bass weight, scale and solidity without sacrificing any of the above. I remember Ron over on wigwam describing them as a cross between Lvs and An-es when he built his, and that’s not a bad description. They’re a long way from perfect, sure ... limited treble extension and they can sound a bit ‘brittle’ with the wrong amp, but I find I just connect with the music they play. Hideous cliche, but more a music lovers speaker than a Hifi tool perhaps. I painted ‘em up real sweet like the keepers they are.

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so is that the xls in the room there with the chair? have you ever tried the maop drivers at all ? they are quite expensive i believe
 
so is that the xls in the room there with the chair? have you ever tried the maop drivers at all ? they are quite expensive i believe

They are £600 per pair, but there are never very many made. I keep a small stock of about 2 pairs, I've got 1 at the moment I think, but basically when they've gone I don't get more until whenever I place another large shipment order.
 
Yep, XLs in the pic Phil. They aren’t as cute as the mk3s but a sympathetic paint finish does wonders for WAF. I’m lucky actually, Casey prefers them to more conventional wooden veneered units.

Meant to say - if anybody reading is passing GL5 and fancies a listen the kettle is always on.
 
Further update on the Mk3s, I reconnected the sub that I use to prop up the ESL57s, and turned the wick up a bit more than I would for the electrostatics. Suddenly a lot of the limitations of the Mk3s are a lot less evident, to the point of being no longer noticeable. The sub does of course have 2 x 12" in sealed cabinets, so no shortage of oomph.
 
Further update on the Mk3s, I reconnected the sub that I use to prop up the ESL57s, and turned the wick up a bit more than I would for the electrostatics. Suddenly a lot of the limitations of the Mk3s are a lot less evident, to the point of being no longer noticeable. The sub does of course have 2 x 12" in sealed cabinets, so no shortage of oomph.

What’s the crossover you’re using Steve? 80hz?
 


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