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Elsdon Wonfor Audio LS-25 speaker cables

Discussion in 'audio' started by Cereal Killer, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    He's wrong, physics is physics and saying that skin effect is an issue at audio frequencies is ignoring the laws of physics for nothing more than a marketing agenda. Most of those links cite usage in high power/current environments or RF transmitters, none of these apply to hifi as that is low current & low frequency.

    I am an ex Royal Signals radio engineer with 30 years experience and have come across and learnt about skin effect as it is a major factor with SHF radio transmission but of zero consequence below 50 KHZ.

    Colin is very clever but at the end of the day is selling a product and bullshit will sometimes seep into the brochures or adverts.
     
  2. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    So what's your take on this then?

     
  3. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    It's not relevant, I'll repeat it again skin effect is not an issue at audio frequencies so the rest of that is waffle.
     
  4. CJ14

    CJ14 Trade: Elsdon Wonfor

    I am sorry but I do disagree, and I design not repair for a living, yes RF and skin effect is relevant, when I designed sonar kit at 40KHz and 100KHz your telling me the extra few Watts I got out was in my mind, mmm I then used NAFF kit. We had better tell The Royal Navy then that the kit I worked on in a design team we could just use 30A Cooker Cable because you say it is not relevant. God the money we could save, and I could have not bothered with a total of nine years at uni, and 40+ yrs of design work experience. What a waster I am.

    [​IMG]

    Do note the 60Hz - 1KHz

    Another good read and not crap is here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

    Enjoy and read well.
     
  5. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    I'll try and understand some of that ( no promises though :))
     
  6. abbydog

    abbydog pfm Member

    Try Mallory PVC Series
     
  7. adamdea

    adamdea pfm Member

    i have no idea what the litz page is supposed to show, can you explain?
    Also this passage;
    "Skin effect, so you all see this as high frequency and not timing high speed edges, wrong. 1KHz I think most could hear that is 1mS, 100KHz is 10uS so lets see a bass note 80Hz with a rise or attack edge on the the smack down of 10uS how would it sound ???
    Now slow it down to an attack edge of 1mS what sort of noise is this ?

    Now lets think about harmonics now how does skin effect change this ?

    Would you say 100KHz is high frequency ??
    Would you say Sonar is high frequency ??
    Then why did we take the trouble when designing Sonar for the MOD and using Litz wire to make it more sensitive?

    Before anybody makes a rash statements think about edges please."
    I don't understand the reference to high speed edges. What exactly is an attack edge of 1ms?

    Is the system not additively linear? Are you saying that the skin effect operating at a high frequency directly affects the signal at a low frequency? I'm not sure otherwise what a bass note on the smack down of 10 us means? How is it different from any other bass note.

    I appreciate that you are an expert, but can you explain this to a layman. I'm eager to learn and quite happy to be shown things I don't understand.

    Also the use of your wire in sonar- can you explain the sensitivity: is it to do with a power loss at a particular frequency? If so can you quantify this.
     
  8. Julf

    Julf Evil brother of Mark V Shaney

    And how is optimal power transmission at 40 kHz or 100 kHz relevant for audio?
     
  9. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    Have you read the rest of the post and link?
     
  10. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    @colin

    You are talking about different use cases, sonar has absolutely nothing to do with hifi. I'm confused as to why you keep referring to 100 Khz, nobody has hearing that good and 25 Khz is around the max your average teenager can hear and dropping to sub 20 Khz when over 30 years old.

    If it is such an issue in audio freqs why are none of the skin depth calculators giving options for Khz, they all use Mhz or Ghz.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...0j69i57j0l4.3251j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    I'm not saying skin effect doesn't occur at audio freqs (re-read my posts and you will see I say "not relevant or not an issue")

    At 20 Khz the skin depth on 18 awg or higher is 100% of the conductor so please explain how this is a problem?
     
  11. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    I don't know about the technical design of these, I'm not an electronics engineers but my ears are telling me they allow my amp/speakers/music to sound freakishly awesome. This may sound like I should be wearing a tin-foil hat with all this cable business, but for what they've aloud the system to become, the outlay is minor. I mean these were not expensive cables in comparison to what they've brought to the party. As far a high end cables go these are a bargain at the current price.
    I really wish EWA success with these and hope if/when these become popular the price doesn't rocket!
     
  12. Foxman50

    Foxman50 pfm Member

    If you have tried TQ cables where in their hierarchy would you say the EWA's sit. Above Ultra's, above Diamonds???
     
  13. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    Not exactly sure, but higher than Ultra's
     
  14. thebiglebowski

    thebiglebowski pfm Member

    I agree that the most important factor in choosing things is whether you like them.

    I very very rarely look at specs or measurements and prefer to buy and try instead.

    What I disagree with is the use of bullshit in marketing.
     
  15. Cereal Killer

    Cereal Killer fourhundredandthirtytwo

    As far as I'm aware there is very little in terms of marketing out there on these cables. They are available on a 30 day trial/return basis... that's good enough for me.
     
  16. adamdea

    adamdea pfm Member

    That seems to be something of an understatement. It seems to be so good for you as to inspire you promote them with the few waking moments that you don't devote to attacking Keith.
     
  17. Purité Audio

    Purité Audio Trade: Purite Audio

    Akin to being mauled by a sheep.
    Keith
     
  18. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    With friends like you ...;)
     
  19. PerF

    PerF Private

    Based on..?
     
  20. Julf

    Julf Evil brother of Mark V Shaney

    Yes. Can you please explain how any of the sonar stuff is relevant to what we are discussing here?
     

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