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Ebay moans

Discussion in 'trade discussion' started by k4pog, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Darran.H

    Darran.H pfm Member

    I had a similar problem with a bidder from Russia. I blocked him as he never paid for items, he then kept changing his username to get around the blocking but foolishly kept the same e-mail address. Ebay took a very dim view of this and for once actually did something about it.


    I've had this once this year on a BIN. I now check the instant payment requirement option whenever I can. Maybe it's something to do with listings and wording ? I sold 3 of my old computer bits (moboard, chip and PSU) on my regular personal ebay account and 2 out of 3 didn't pay. The listings were the most basic, just 2 lines of text and a couple of low res pics. My guess is the more serious and thorough you are about yourself, the more serious buyers will treat you. That is NOT to make any judgements on anyone's ebay listings here, it's just something that I have found over the years.
  3. k4pog

    k4pog Trade member

    So they don't think you're a "serious and thorough" seller with over 1400 feedbacks then,but still hit the BIN button anyway ?


    No idea. It may not apply to you, you be the judge of that. Its just something ive noticed between my personal listings and regular listings that i thought might be worth a mention.
  5. AV8

    AV8 pfm Member

    A mate I once worked with used to list items as a Buy it Now with immediate payment , he took the stance though that it was only for a deposit of 10% & was listed in the description as being that , the balance was then payable by bank transfer or cheque after the auction end . ( business sellers could use CC payments for the balance )

    2 things happened , his non paying buyers dried up , he also then got a better price from the sale by being paid 90% of the price away from Paypal .

    This was ofcourse personal selling , not sure if business sellers there are treated differently for paying facilities .

    Update :

    He told me today that Ebay closed his account as they deemed it fees evasion .
  6. sm1907

    sm1907 pfm Member

    I had a bad experience of using BIN on ebay for a UK only sale. A buyer from Hong Kong made a BIN offer, he didn't send an instant payment as he wanted an invoice for the postage as well. When I refused to sell he would not agree to withdraw his BIN bid, end result I got hit with seller fees and negative feedback:mad:
  7. daws0n

    daws0n pfm Member

    I agree, eBay is becoming a bag-o-shit the more popular it gets... I sold a £30 item to some on there recently, and a few days later after it was posted they file an "Item not Received" dispute on eBay while ignoring any attempts of direct communication with me.

    Fishy no doubt and since it was sent via standard parcel I didn't have a leg to stand on with regards to proof of delivery. I went digging for info on this guy and I found his dorky youtube channel... The idiot has uploaded a video of himself UNWRAPPING and reviewing the item a day before he opened the dispute!

    I rang eBay and explained everything, they didn't give two stuffs really and did nothing about it. I sent him the youtube link, told him he'd been caught out and I'd take legal action if he didn't drop the claim. Eventually he did and I got my money back, but he's still there ripping people off.
  8. jaz9706

    jaz9706 pfm Member

    hI k4pog, If its any concellation its happening to normal sellers too, however I think you will find that buyers do have the right to change their mind, as frustrating as that is, this may well be why fleabay has changed.

    Whats more worrying to me is how much fleabay charges now, compared to when it started.
  9. Royd Audio

    Royd Audio Trade: Royd Audio

    I had this happen to me a couple of times, once when shipping an Arcam receiver to Italy [I no longer sell outside the UK] and once buying a PS3.

    I received a string of excuses from the seller as to why he hadn't shipped the item despite payment. I ended up Cyberstalking him to get his full contact details along with a little help from eBay.

    I then actually rang up my local police station stating that this was attempted fraud and he had no intention of paying. They then contacted his local police [being in Devon] who sent someone round to have a "chat". He refunded me the amount the next day.

    I concur that eBay is now a closed system, offers no seller protection, and forces users into their own payment system [PayPal] while doing nothing of any consequence to settle authentic disputes, and genuine problems.

    I think there should be scope to open an online auction system where the only method of transaction is cash on collection or cash on delivery!
  10. pdcman

    pdcman Member

    Must admit, this was quite an eye opening read, but also deeply depressing. It certainly sums up my feelings towards doing any business on eBay these days; ie. don't bid unless the seller is well known and reliable. Don't fancy selling any of my kit on it anymore in view of you guys experiences, not to mention the fees/PayPal thing.

    Thanks very much for sharing.
  11. bdw

    bdw Member

    i get depressed with this sort of thing. the internet seems to be full of people that want to con you. i remember looking around alibaba and thinking of setting up a business reselling in Europe things that you can get for a decent price in the far east, but i heard too many horror stories to think about it seriously.

    and is the same buying and selling cars now.

    i hate that you cant trust people any more, and i also hate that ebay are not holding up their end of the bargain, but they are so powerful now the barriers to entering the market are too big.
  12. RobH

    RobH Active Member

    I've had the same problems recently too, a couple of non-payments with no communication and one who refused to pay the carriage charge for an item to China. My original listing was UK only. You have no choice but to accept the winning bid no matter what, and I had quoted only the basic carriage charge straight from the couriers website. Very frustrating. After the usual long wait I did get my ebay fees back each time though. This hardly ever used to happen though, what's changed?
    Also very annoying that you can't leave negative feedback in that case, there is no sense to that at all!
    And the fees are excessive!
    Rant over. I feel better now.
  13. Doomlord_uk

    Doomlord_uk pfm Member

    I'm not a trader who runs a business on eBay - yet - but I have used eBay since they first set up here in the Uk, and Yahoo auctions before that. So I have a fair bit of experience.

    There are a few things to consider.

    eBay provides a fairly unique service - it's a huge marketplace and has global reach, so it puts you in contact with potential buyers in a LOT of places. That in turn can increase your potential sale price (for an auction, anyway). This, to me, is its advantage as a selling medium.

    eBay is NOT the company it used to be, and will never go back to being that. Auctions are an ever-shrinking part of its business, and private sellers are an ever shrinking part of its business. eBay absolutely wants to be the next Amazon - a universal online shopping portal. The point was made that eBay is effectively a monopoly and that is correct too. It has no competition and thus no incentive to compete for customers.

    eBay doesn't do much if anything about dodgy bidders, scammers etc because IT MAKES MONEY FROM THEM! Every scam bid that gets cancelled, they make a listing fee on that regardless. Getting that refunded is a royal PITA.

    eBay doesn't allow NF for buyers because it depends on buyers to attract the sellers who pay the fees... NF drives buyers away. The only you can do and MUST do is file a complaint for non-payment. Eventually after three strikes they get whack-a-moled and have to create a new account. It's not much.

    If you are serious about being paid then it is basically up to you to take action directly. eBay can be sued but so too can the buyer (unless I'm mistaken) - a bid is a legally binding contract I believe. Suing 'customers' sounds bad for business but non-payers are NOT customers. But if you don't take action... they get away with it. And the fact is, I've never even heard of a bidder being sued for non-payment. The more people get away with behavng badly, the worse it gets. The fact is, we are all responsible in part for creating this situation.

    As for blatantly fraudulant trades etc... go to the police, go to your solicitors. If the police say 'not interested' file a complaint! This is, of course, one of the fundamental reasons the UK sucks so much - because we (including as traders) are notorious for not complaining. The result is that corporations dump on us, rip us off, treat us badly - and get away with it. I'm sorry - but we ALL have to fight, all the time. that is the nature of life.

    Another point - we are in a recession. There are more and more people getting more and more desperate and if hitting BiN to remove a competing auction for a few days helps, it will happen. Or hitting BiN and then trying to negotiate a lower price after the fact... etc. Get smart, and at the least make it clear in your sale conditions that the accepted bid price is FINAL.

    Certainly block bids from people with no registered credit card and insist on immediate payment (doesn't work for items over £1000 though I believe). Forget 'PP for deposit, cheque for balance' as that plainly falls under their 'fee avoidance' rules and always has done. It's a loada crap, but can't be helped.

    Yes, eBay/Paypal is expensive but if you seek out the advantages - market reach, basically - and avoid the obvious mistakes then you can still enjoy it. It's not for every commodity or item type. ANd of course as eBay gets worse, more sellers - and thus more buyers - go elsewhere. Amazon, for one, and also forums.

    Forums, of course, carry their own risks... but generally seem to take trading standards more seriously.

    Anyway, if you don't like eBay, don't use it. But if you make that decision, make sure that when you close your account with them, that you tell them why. No feedback means no chance of change. Do your part - complain!!!
  14. Doomlord_uk

    Doomlord_uk pfm Member

    One more thought... BiN is a tempting sale option, but it carries one problem - you can't cancel a BiN bid. If you have a lot of issues with bad BiN bidding, you could simply try going with an auction format with the start price set at the min price you want. You may have to wait longer for the auction to close it might seem, but if the current top bidder agrees - you CAN close early with the top bid becoming the winning (and binding) bid. Now you have a chance to verify your bidder before closing like that... you also save on BiN fees. Perhaps worth considering.
  15. Doomlord_uk

    Doomlord_uk pfm Member

    One last thing, that I wanted to put in a post by itself.


    If ALL reputable, serious hifi dealers - say, all BADA members - jointly negotiated with eBay and acted *together* you might have a chance to make a difference. You guys generate a lot of revenue for eBay directly, so together your voice might make a difference.

    And imagine if you pulled out - collectively - from the eBay marketplace. Not only do they lose revenue, they lose buyers who then would not go looking AND they are left with only private and dodgy independent sellers only, which then reduces the appeal of eBay - it goes back to being 'fleabay' which is what it is absolutely trying to get away from.

    You have power - use it.
  16. k4pog

    k4pog Trade member

    My biggest gripe with them at the moment is the huge recent jump in "dealers" fees
    Obviously,dealers provide ebay with their biggest income,so you could say we are their "best customers"
    In most other businesses,the "best customers" are normally offered incentives and generally well looked after,but with ebay,it's the total opposite

    For example,a private seller recently sold 3 high value audio items for a total of circa £26000
    His final value fees would have been around £120 in total,which is truly exceptional value

    If myself or any other registered dealer had sold the same,our FVF would have been around £1100 ! (even allowing for my 15% discount on fees,recently dropped from 25%)
    Oh and not forgetting the paypal fees on top of course !

    I'm not saying private sellers should be charged considerably more,but the gulf in fees between "private" and "trade" sellers is ridiculous

    In the long term,ebay will be worse off,as more and more dealers will use them purely to advertise their items,then do their utmost to sell outside of ebay,hence they will lose the FVF fees in the process
  17. hifinutt

    hifinutt hifinutt

    not sure i get this figure, i sold items worth 700 on ebay and was charged around 70 quid seller fees
  18. daws0n

    daws0n pfm Member

    Agreed, his fees should of been much higher - nearly a grand by my estimation. It was my understanding that business/dealers enjoy low % rates on final value/paypal fees?
  19. CJ1045

    CJ1045 You want Briks with that?

    The final value fee for a private seller is 10% but capped at £40 per item. Business sellers in the new 'Sound and Vision' section have a 5% final value fee but no cap. As John (K4POG) mentions there used to be a discount for Top Rated seller but that has just been cut.


    John's figures are right.

  20. daws0n

    daws0n pfm Member

    Jeez - that's insane! Good news for private sellers I suppose, but what a blow to traders.

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