PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Norway is not in the customs union, so perhaps not the best model to resolve the NI issue.
Dump The Guardian!
- Thread starter maxflinn
- Start date
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Max, your avatar (as at today) is so utterly ironic.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
The easy solution would be to cede NI to the republic - it`s what half the population want and most of the rest are DUP - job done.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
There are precedents for countries to be in the customs union but outside the EU. Andorra, San Marino and to some extent Turkey (~ goods only) are in the CU but outside the EU and Schengen. Monaco is the same but inside Schengen.
Tony L
Administrator
Given Tories will only ever act in their own personal interests and they are only in power propped up by the DUP this option won’t even get onto the table. The more I think about it the more I become convinced this is the aspect that will derail Tory Brexit though. There just doesn’t seem to be any solution other than unifying Ireland, everything else requires a totally unworkable hard-border.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Is unifying Ireland a realistic possibility? I (only a foreigner) had always understood that the British subjects of NI would never stand for that. In fact would "rather fight than switch."
Half of Northern Ireland might want reunification, and it is roughly half of the Republic too ... until you ask "and would you be willing to pay more tax for that to happen?", at which point the rebel songs stop mid-flow with a strangled "it'll cost us how much?", and support drops to around a third (and that is before you get into how much it would cost).
So if you could get it through Brexit-style, i.e. pretend there will be no negative impact ("hey everyone, Northern Ireland is great - in no way is it costing £9bn a year to maintain, and the DUP are a great bunch of lads and lasses once you get to know them!"), then maybe, but otherwise it is pretty unlikely.
glancaster
In the silicon vale
This is a faulty premise. Nowhere near half of NI citizens want reunification. It's almost exactly a third, even with all the uncertainties around Brexit.
Source: https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...inds-one-third-in-favour-irish-unity-1171518/
Source: https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...inds-one-third-in-favour-irish-unity-1171518/
Tony L
Administrator
Almost certainly the case. The whole thing is a mess, Ireland itself is a mess. It took decades to stop the violence, terrorism etc and the line is exceptionally fragile. Brexit is in breach of the Good Friday agreement, as would be any border, as is the Tory buying the DUP. As I say I’m becoming increasingly confident this is where the Tory Brexit debacle will fail, not in Brussels. I can’t see any logical or workable solution aside from abandoning Tory Brexit and keeping things where they are! It would not surprise me if that was where it ends, but I suspect many lives will be lost along the way as the violence inevitably starts up again.
tones
Tones deaf
In a word, no.
(a) Tribalism still runs strong in the North, and the tribe bearing the name "Loyalist" would fight it (and I mean literally fight it - the ghosts of 1912, the Covenant and the Ulster Volunteers, ready to fight the British to remain British). The ancient battle cry shouted from the walls of Derry in 1689 - "No surrender!" - would be heard again, and the North would again become a battleground.
(b) Ireland (i.e. the other more sensible bit of the island) pays lip service to reunification (has to), but it wants three-quarters of a million unwilling Loyalists about as much as it wants a hole in the head. Moreover, as Michael P has pointed out, there is no way that Ireland could support the North in the style to which it has become accustomed. The little Orange statelet has never been a viable economic entity, even in the best of times, and currently floats on a sea of British taxpayers' money on a scale 'way beyond Ireland's capabilities. Some years ago, I attended a 40th (!!!) graduation anniversary at Queen's. Nearly everyone there to whom I spoke and who had stayed on after graduation worked for the Government in one capacity or another.
The problem is that Ireland has moved on into the 21st century, whereas Northern Ireland has remained firmly stuck in the past. How one solves that problem, I have no idea.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I think 'hard' Brexit is synonymous with 'Tory' Brexit. Nobody else seems to be exhibiting the Tories' lemming-like qualities.
Tony L
Administrator
As I have stated may times Cameron pulled an ill-thought-out referendum out of his arse as he was afraid of losing some of the fruitloops, racists and creeps on his back benches to a vacuous gobshite with no seats (Farage). As ever with Tories he acted entirely in what he thought was his own self interest, but being a Tory he was too dumb to assess the risk properly so when he lost he caused huge damage to the country. As a millionaire from birth it does not matter to him as in true Bullingdon Club style he can just trash the place and run away to live the rest of his life in luxury. There are far too many of his ilk in the party. He is the man who destroyed the UK and has sentenced us all to a very dark and dreary future, one he will not feel.
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
It will be very sad if conflict starts again in Ireland. It's outrageous that this is all due to Cameron's fear of UKIP and the far right morons in the Tory Party who engineered the EU Referendum. It had nothing to do with the Labour Party.
Jack
richardg
Admonishtrator
Well we could make it easier...Great Britain and Northern Ireland and then United Kingdom including Northern ireland.
glancaster
In the silicon vale
I hear this a lot, but I've never seen anyone quote the part of the GFA they think would be breached.
I agree that Brexit is undoubtedly going to put further strains on the NI peace process and North-South relations, and breach the spirit of cooperation that permeates the GFA, but that is a rather weaker claim.
Assuming Brexit proceeds as stated, I can't see any way of avoiding a customs border between North and South. There will be technological and bureaucratic ways of minimising the impact of it, no doubt, but I can't see how such a border could ever be 'frictionless'. I think we would be better to accept the reality and start planning for it now.
Kind regards
- Garry