Mr Cat
Owner
same with young kids too...shouldn't be allowed in pubs..
Dogs, their owners and sheep.
- Thread starter darrell_giant
- Start date
same with young kids too...shouldn't be allowed in pubs..
Rockmeister
pfm Member
and more importantly their children, but that's rare too...
calorgas
Generic middle-aged man
My dog is uninterested in sheep (having been adequately trained as a pup) but I'll still keep him on a lead around sheep as he could still startle them just by him busying around, especially if he spots a pheasant. Same with cows. There are too many dog owners about who seem to think that they can do what they want, and walk where they want, and leave shit where they want.
Farmers (as a whole) can be bloody hypocrites though as their interest in animal welfare seems to be proportional to the value of the animals in question. In the last few years of living where I am I've seen dead and dying sheep left for days in the field, a dead cow in a drainage ditch that never got removed and slowly rotted away amidst much stink, and many sheep and cows in the river, most of which drown. I'm pretty sure they never try and recover drowned sheep, they can bob around for weeks in cold water before they finally sink or fall to pieces.
Farmers (as a whole) can be bloody hypocrites though as their interest in animal welfare seems to be proportional to the value of the animals in question. In the last few years of living where I am I've seen dead and dying sheep left for days in the field, a dead cow in a drainage ditch that never got removed and slowly rotted away amidst much stink, and many sheep and cows in the river, most of which drown. I'm pretty sure they never try and recover drowned sheep, they can bob around for weeks in cold water before they finally sink or fall to pieces.
darrell_giant
pfm Member
With regard to compensation, the first thing most dog owners that find themselves in this situation do, is offer to pay for the farmers loss if the dog has been caught. That doesn’t fix it though. Its about way more than money and it is an upsetting experience. There is a difference between the planned death of slaughter and the needless death of sheep worrying. Most farmers care very much about their animals welfare and take pride in their husbandry. They put in hours that often from a financial view make little sense if costed out rationally, and existence can be marginal. Without this care, effort and love for what they do beyond financial considerations, most small farms wouldn’t exist. They are also upset by the loss of the dog in my experience; again, it is a needless death that is not the dogs fault, and dealing with grief stricken owners is a difficult thing that causes pain to all involved.
How death occurs on a farm is a strange thing. Whilst in their care most farmers care deeply about their animals. Once the decision has been made to send for slaughter a different moral code operates with the animals becoming food and a product. Beyond humane slaughter the husbandry and care then focuses on new or descended stock. That is just how it works, and all who enjoy meat are complicit in that moral distinction. Its just part of the weirdness of farming livestock, and meat consumption.
To suggest that the death of animals through sheep worrying is of no consequence in anything other than a financial sense is not accurate. Farmers care much more than that.
moffer
pfm Member
A wise thing to do, especially for someone has a dog with them and the cattle have calves. There are a handful of deaths every year from people being crushed by cattle protecting their calves.
Bit of a long story but here's what happened when I had an incident with a marauding herd of cattle with their calves.... Many moons ago when I was a fit young fella, I was up in these here hills with my dog and spotted a herd of Welsh Blacks with calves feeding on a hillside about 400 yards away, which I thought would be a safe distance as I was well aware of the threat they can pose. Uh uh, no chance, the big black bastards saw me, or perhaps more likely got wind of me, and came galloping over. I let my 13 year old dog off the lead hoping she would run off thus averting the oncoming danger for both of us. Unfortunately she kept close and just run around me with about 20 of these half ton beasts trying to gore her, which they briefly managed to do but thankfully did not seriously hurt her. Although the beasts were interested in my dog and did not try to hurt me I was in serious danger and very nearly got crushed as I was stuck in the middle of the action. We eventually managed to run off and escape danger by jumping over a not too far away fence...I had to throw my dog over first with several of the black bastards in close pursuit.
Just so happened that the farmer who owned the cattle drove up in his 4x4 shortly after the incident, so I explained to him what had happened and the danger his cattle posed, especially to older folk walking their dogs on the common, and suggested that it might be a good idea to have them fenced in on his land during calving time, but he didn't seem to give a hoot and said he had every right to graze his animals on the common, which is true, but so have the public every right to access the place.
I must have got through to him though as shortly after a sign was erected saying... "Users of this common do so at their own risk", which was probably done solely to protect his arse from any legal claims.
I spoke to a veterinarian friend of mine about the incident who said that he never liked treating Welsh Blacks as they were an aggressive breed...he weren't kidding!
moffer
pfm Member
That's a bit of romantic view of farming IMO, but if that's how farmers are where you live then fair enough. I used to have a lot to do with farmers in my area and can only speak as I find. I'm not saying for a minute that they don't look after their stock and are not unhappy seeing their sheep mauled or killed by dogs, but as for being heartbroken..I think not.
darrell_giant
pfm Member
I agree that 'heartbroken' may not be the best choice of word. It does over romanticise. Really pissed off might describe things better but my point is that it is not without a sense of loss and significant pain.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
The fundamental problem is that there is a 'species' of owner.. of both Dogs and Children.. which will always adopt the stance that their rights trump everyone else's.and that their Dog, Child etc., is 'good' and 'would never do such a thing..'
There is a descriptive term for this species.. which decorum prevents me from uttering.
There is a descriptive term for this species.. which decorum prevents me from uttering.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
I recall an incident many years ago as I was walking up to a cave ( Disappointment Pot?) via Trow Gill. Some moron had a Red Setter off the lead. Those things are barmy at the best of times and this was no exception. It suddenly took off up the Gill side and started 'boing, boinging' after sheep.. chasing them into barbed wire.. over rocks , up and down the gill etc., whilst its seemingly unabashed dummy of an owner looked on, unable to recall it.
OTOH, I was out with my little mongrel mutt one day.. A Red setter decided it wanted to play and followed us for several miles up and around Billinge Hill. It refused all requests to 'f**k *ff' and also refused to come near enough to be caught or identified. As we walked down the village Main Street towards the end of our walk .. said Setter proceeded to 'boing boiing' between the numerous rush hour vehicles.. causing chaos and consternation. Eventually, a 'white van man' pulled up and screamed at me. " You wanna get your f****ing dog on a lead!!" I pulled little Hovis.. my mutt, out from behind me, by the lead and screamed back.. " My f***ing dog IS on a lead!!! ..
OTOH, I was out with my little mongrel mutt one day.. A Red setter decided it wanted to play and followed us for several miles up and around Billinge Hill. It refused all requests to 'f**k *ff' and also refused to come near enough to be caught or identified. As we walked down the village Main Street towards the end of our walk .. said Setter proceeded to 'boing boiing' between the numerous rush hour vehicles.. causing chaos and consternation. Eventually, a 'white van man' pulled up and screamed at me. " You wanna get your f****ing dog on a lead!!" I pulled little Hovis.. my mutt, out from behind me, by the lead and screamed back.. " My f***ing dog IS on a lead!!! ..
Animals being allowed to rot away in a ditch is totally illegal, you should call the Environment Agency next time. Think about the downstream consequences.
I trained my GSD not to chase sheep but before that his first instinct was to chase and kill, it's only natural for dogs.
There seems to be a bit of relaxation in the footpath regulations and less rambler objections now so if you use any cross field paths it could be worth getting together with local dog walkers and land owner.
The process of moving a cross field path to the outside of a field costs about £500 here and relieves the land owner of some maintenance which will offset some of his fencing costs.
Try and be tactful as some of these rights of way arouse substantial passion. I've got a neighbour who spent 20 years removing a path his father used to get to church each week, he missed out on the appeals process when the Definitive Map was produced. He was called Footpath for ever after.
MVV
pfm Member
Me neither! I don't know of any cow-friendly pubs.
calorgas
Generic middle-aged man
Yes you're right, in future I will contact the environment agency (I did a few months ago but about pollution in the river). Does the same apply to leaving dead things in the river, do you know?
I do have sympathy for farmers and landowners as there are a lot of idiots that have no regard for anyone but themselves. Round my neck of the woods it's almost entirely farmland (90% farmland and only 3% 'Natural' according to this BBC page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901294). So it's difficult to walk a dog without being in fields! Some landowners make it easy for you, and some don't.
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
I'm pretty sure it would be a serious offence, you certainly can't bury them anywhere legally because of potential damage to ground water.
A visit from the EA strikes more fear in the heart of the average farmer than the VAT inspector.
moffer
pfm Member
One farmer I know used to burn them, and he had plenty to burn believe me. His land used to be littered with carcasses in various stages of decomposition and he was reported to the authorities on more than one occasion. Goes without saying that his husbandry was pretty abysmal. That was a good few years ago and I've heard that things improved a lot since then...not sure they could have got much worse. I believe it's now law that farmers must have all animal carcasses collected and taken away for proper disposal. I think they pay x amount per carcass.
Jonn
Tons of Trouble
. Eventually, a 'white van man' pulled up and screamed at me. " You wanna get your f****ing dog on a lead!!" I pulled little Hovis.. my mutt, out from behind me, by the lead and screamed back.. " My f***ing dog IS on a lead!!! ..
If your dog had been run over he'd be brown bread.