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DIY Voyager mono block build

337alant said:
There was an interesting article in Linear Audio Vol 1 in non linearity of various makes of resistors and the Dale RN65D was used as the reference
It showed the generation of harmonic distortion generally over the bandwidth of 100 to 10k, article was written by g Scott Wurcer, designer of the AD797 opamp from Analogue devices :rolleyes:

Alan
Click to expand...

And also the self-noise generated by each resistor type which relates to method of construction and the materials used.

Noisiest first.

Carbon film
Metal film
Tantalum.

Read that in Morgan Jones ‘’Valve Amplifiers’’.

Chops

I think that we may be talking at cross purposes as my conversation re the Dales relates to Alan’s lovely NCC200 build and not the VBE ATM.

I’ve heard the grounded Grid many years ago now and as you say it’s a great sounding pre. The Jolidas I’ve not had the pleasure of but I’ve heard and liked 211 based SE amps. Almost built one but baulked at the filament current so it never happened.

Interesting way of driving those 211 beasts with el84 almost Zen.

I still have my humble WAD KEL84 P.P EL84 as a sanity check and still love it.
 
Yes it was the VBE I was referring to. No worries.

I actually have two Grounded Grid preamps. I liked the first one I bought so much that I bought another for the upstairs system. A good friend who also has Voyagers borrowed one of mine for a while and ended up replacing his 72 with one. He sold the 72 within weeks of building his Grounded Grid which I thought was a bold move but he appears to be a happy man. There are better preamps around but you'd have to spend a lot of money for something better. I've had several good preamps in my system over the years and the GG beat them all. As for the Jolidas well I've had them quite a while. They were ex dem and the dealer had two pairs brought into the UK and I was lucky enough to get a pair. I was on the rebound from losing out on a pair of EAR509s and I saw these and bought them on the spur of the moment. Thankfully I really like them or it would have been a bloody expensive mistake. The 211s are driven by EL34s not 84s. The line up is 2 x ECC81 into 2 x EL34 into 2 x 211 per monoblock. They're push-pull so have quite a bit of wallop. The meter spins quite freely too!
A good friend has a KEL84. It's done him proud over the years and I can't see him changing anytime soon. If I had to seriously downsize I'd be quite happy with one.
 
Chops54 said:
Yes it was the VBE I was referring to. No worries.

I actually have two Grounded Grid preamps. I liked the first one I bought so much that I bought another for the upstairs system. A good friend who also has Voyagers borrowed one of mine for a while and ended up replacing his 72 with one. He sold the 72 within weeks of building his Grounded Grid which I thought was a bold move but he appears to be a happy man. There are better preamps around but you'd have to spend a lot of money for something better. I've had several good preamps in my system over the years and the GG beat them all. As for the Jolidas well I've had them quite a while. They were ex dem and the dealer had two pairs brought into the UK and I was lucky enough to get a pair. I was on the rebound from losing out on a pair of EAR509s and I saw these and bought them on the spur of the moment. Thankfully I really like them or it would have been a bloody expensive mistake. The 211s are driven by EL34s not 84s. The line up is 2 x ECC81 into 2 x EL34 into 2 x 211 per monoblock. They're push-pull so have quite a bit of wallop. The meter spins quite freely too!
A good friend has a KEL84. It's done him proud over the years and I can't see him changing anytime soon. If I had to seriously downsize I'd be quite happy with one.
Click to expand...

Sorry I only had a very quick read through.

Yes the KEL is a very good unit for the cost. It takes me back to my first venture into valves with Leak stereo 20 and TL12+ but the KEL betters both IMHO.

Built a 26 pre once but could not kill the noise (microphony) so gave up.

211 I’ve heard driven in SE with 76/45 front end which sounded very tasty indeed.

Sorry for the OT guys:D
 
I don't think Alan will worry too much besides it can be quite informative to know other members hifi journeys.

Ok, after your post about noisy resistors Shaun I'm off to seek out some tants.
 
I think Tant resistors must be far down the list of mods.

Surely if you get to that point far better in one or two key positions for example phono boards and Dacs then pre amp before one or two points in a power amp?

And of course the money spent on say a few dozen of those could mean a better cartridge, if you like source first ;)
 
trancera said:
I think Tant resistors must be far down the list of mods.

Surely if you get to that point far better in one or two key positions for example phono boards and Dacs then pre amp before one or two points in a power amp?

And of course the money spent on say a few dozen of those could mean a better cartridge, if you like source first ;)
Click to expand...

I quite agree. Cost to pop both NCC boards in half watt tants is approaching two hundred quid. I've used Takman metal film resistors from the same source in the past and I've always been happy with the results. Cost to do both boards is under fifty quid.
 
trancera said:
I think Tant resistors must be far down the list of mods.

Surely if you get to that point far better in one or two key positions for example phono boards and Dacs then pre amp before one or two points in a power amp?

And of course the money spent on say a few dozen of those could mean a better cartridge, if you like source first ;)
Click to expand...

Agree too expensive to use everywhere so just use in the signal path.

I think the Feed back and input caps have the most influence on the voicing of the amp

Alan
 
I decided to revisit some of other Power Amplifiers to see how they faired against the mighty Voyagers :D
IMG_2229 by 337alant, on Flickr
IMG_2228 by 337alant, on Flickr
IMG_2222 by 337alant, on Flickr

All listening was done in my system on my own and didn't blindfold myself so this is all just my own opinion take it or leave it :D
system used, Digital flac files from my silent PC via USB Young DAC and B4 Pre Amp IMG_2224 by 337alant, on Flickr,
4mm + 2.5mm Van damme blue tour grade speaker cable, Tannoy Precision 6.4 speakers B wired, I played the same track called "Exotica" from George Benson's Songs & Stories album and tried to match volume as well as I could


These are the notes I took

Firstly the Voyagers :):)
Wide 3D image, Deep bass with Vice like grip, great detail, very musical, I love them 9.5/10

Voy 5 by 337alant, on Flickr

NCC 200 Amp with single shared 375Va transformer and power supply to the amp boards with no VBE, Hackercap 6s

IMG_2218 by 337alant, on Flickr

Very similar sound to the voyagers only you loose some of the sound stage and subtleties, Bass was still very good but not as extended as the voyagers, Had great voice sound very vivid and again musical 8/10

Hackernap amp
IMG_2217 by 337alant, on Flickr

Shared 875Va torroid 4 x Hacker cap boards, soft start but not Vellemen speaker protection
Wow Id forgotten what a cracking amp this is Bass is clean and tight very good detail and imaging but not as wide as the voyager but treable is slightly better though :eek: again a very musical amp and very good in its own right 9/10

NCC200 no soft start (stolen) Avondale cap6, 375Va shared tranny in a 2U case
IMG_2216 by 337alant, on Flickr
Considering this amp has been in my garage for the last 2 years it sounded very good, again the same sonic signature as all of the NCC200 and hackernap based amps, this one has a slightly softer sound but still with a stonking bass 7/10

Rotel RB 960BX Mosfet amp again been in the loft for 5 years
IMG_2220 by 337alant, on Flickr
Great bass Mid and treable a bit recessed losinig some detail so a bit 2D and dark sounding, good amp though I used a pair of these for years and they have black gate caps in them :eek: 6/10

Quad 306
IMG_2222 by 337alant, on Flickr
Used initially with the B4 pre amp
Jesus the little amp Kick a*se :D its very punchy and dynamic and very transparent but does sound a bit hard and unforgiving but with great pratt, I would say its very NAIM chrome bumber sound. I had to knock the volume back quite a bit as it is very sensitive compared to the other amps

With the 34 pre amp
IMG_2225 by 337alant, on Flickr
This was a better match and the amp sounded more balanced and smoother but not as transparent in fact a little veiled and could still sound a bit hard. Still a fab little combination though and classic looks IMO 7/10

So overall and interesting listening session and all the power amplifiers were very good really and transparent. All of the NCC200 based amps have the same sonic signature and one I like very much silky smooth & musical vice like grip on bass and drum, nice 3D image.
The 2 outstanding winners IMO are the Hackernaps and the Voyagers with the Voyagers my overall favourite
IMG_2232 by 337alant, on Flickr
Now I just have to put me system back together :rolleyes:

Alan
 
Hi Alan

Great review and interesting to read your thoughts on the NCC200 and Voyagers. It’s exactly how I remember it going from on to the other. The sound just blossomed and with the new build even more so.

I missed the Hackernap build as it was a little before my time but it looks very nice and has a great reputation here. I’d love to have a listen to one at some point but the boards are long gone.

Really nice builds.:cool:

I’m not sure if you noticed Tim’s post on VBEing the Hackernap but one wonders if that may close the gap still further. Could be worth thinking on for curiosities sake.

Glad you avoided the blind test.

Too many trip hazards.:D

Oooooh those R2R look lovely and my music room is almost finished.

I must pick your brains on something suitable for a novice like myself.

Changed your speakers? Last time I looked to had a pair of Ivans.

A great review.:cool:
 
Excellent info, and great builds.

Mono Voyagers are in my sights, but been distracted this month with new phono stage and dac, then the Elephant in the room hearing a Devaliet and wondering about Class D :D

May I assume the latest mono Voyagers are 1.4's, the other models 1.3?
 
divedeepdog said:
Excellent info, and great builds.

Mono Voyagers are in my sights, but been distracted this month with new phono stage and dac, then the Elephant in the room hearing a Devaliet and wondering about Class D :D

May I assume the latest mono Voyagers are 1.4's, the other models 1.3?
Click to expand...

DDD yes that's correct the Voyagers are the V1.4

Alan
 
shoom said:
Hi Alan

Great review and interesting to read your thoughts on the NCC200 and Voyagers. It’s exactly how I remember it going from on to the other. The sound just blossomed and with the new build even more so.

I missed the Hackernap build as it was a little before my time but it looks very nice and has a great reputation here. I’d love to have a listen to one at some point but the boards are long gone.

Really nice builds.:cool:

I’m not sure if you noticed Tim’s post on VBEing the Hackernap but one wonders if that may close the gap still further. Could be worth thinking on for curiosities sake.

Glad you avoided the blind test.

Too many trip hazards.:D

Oooooh those R2R look lovely and my music room is almost finished.

I must pick your brains on something suitable for a novice like myself.

Changed your speakers? Last time I looked to had a pair of Ivans.

A great review.:cool:
Click to expand...

Hi Shaun
Yes the Hackernap is still an excellent amp but I don't want to do any more tinkering with it TBH its excellent as it is, leant it to a friend recently who was mighty impressed.
I still prefer the Voyagers though and that is where an further development will be concentrated like LesW tweak to the VBE ;);) watch this space.

Yes I have a bit of a fetish with R2Rs :D I have 10 in total, they are a superb source when they are in good fettle, they also magically turn digital flac files into analogue bliss :D:

Alan
 
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