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DAC Bake-off II: Electric Boogaloo (South) — June 21, 2014

Nearly time.

Might be getting kit from Mark (Item) - but if the W4S isn't available in time (Mark is doing all he can!) it may be easiest to use what we have available between us.

I have a Young DAC (the older non-DSD version) and the Sonos, plus a DELL desktop set up as a Vortexbox.

What else might be made available by those attending?
 
OK, so another really enjoyable day in the company of Darren(Yeats), Chris(thebiglebowski) and Andrew(Accuphaseman).

I'll keep this brief-ish.

We started by measuring the room using an XYZ (Darrren will correct me on the name!) analyzer. This showed that the room's resonant freq/issue is indeed 40Hz as calculations suggest. The GIK traps are helping a little on the 40Hz issue, but making a much bigger difference at the 80Hz level, and in general taming the room quite a lot. I think he has plots that he may be able to post later.

[edit] Shouldn't forget - we tried the "Akiko sticks" as an early AB. Applied them to the interconnects between pre and Active 50s. Difference? Nothing. Zilda. Diddly-squat. Zippo.

So, with the room sounding rather better than it did in DBO1 we started our sighted ABing. Most of the ABs were done using Sonos vs. Sonos into Young, but we also used the Tag McLaren CDT and the BlueSound that Chris brought over.

We certainly had some issues volume matching, but with the inverse log scale of the Tom Evans Vibe pre stepped volume we found two points within 0.1 db between the Sonos and Young. We tried both quick switching and whole track at a time ABs.

Results?

Simple. Even sighted we struggled to pin down any differences. There were the odd observations that "x sounds a bit more natural maybe", including once from me. However, a replay of the AB in question consistently came up with a "no, I can't hear the difference now" response from the original person who'd made the observation.

One of the quick ABs switches caused the volume to me "miss-selected" and caused a "hey, that sounds different" excited observation (louder was preferred). Luckily the visual difference on the volume control per each step is easy enough to spot and was subsequently picked up as the cause.

In various other tests where subtle differences were half-thought to exist a check on the volume variation was agreed to be the most likely explanation. Getting the BlueSound level matched to the Young proved harder, and a difference of 0.6db was the best we could manage. In these ABs the Young did sound possibly sound ever so subtly different, but the volume was again identified as "the difference" - though Darren noted that his perception of slightly more forward vocals was likely down to the non-linearity of human perception of volume changes (meaning the vocal range frequencies show the volume change the most). Even so, even given a 0.6db volume advantage the Young didn't really stand as anything other than minusculely (if that's a word) different.

When we wrapped up we did a poll - would you spend money on an expensive DAC?

Four out of four "No's".

Do you think differences exist?

A little more tricky. Possibly in a £50,000 system with perfect room response then perhaps there is still a little room for doubt (maybe, just maybe??), was the collective agreement, but certainly not in a merely "very good" system/room (mine!).

Well, that's it. Over to the criticism. :)
 
Yes really enjoyed today.Thanks Ian

Could not hear a difference between either Dacs. Think that maybe fatigue was playing a part towards end.

The turntable was the best sounding today.

Go on Darren you know you want one.

Andy
 
I heard Chulahoma by Black Keys sounding much better on vinyl than digital. But though Awesome Wave by Alt-J sounded different on vinyl, I didn't think it sounded better than the digital.

After today I've heard enough to believe some records are mastered better than their CD equivalents, and some aren't.

The argument over the best washing solutions to use in vacuum record cleaners put me off a bit! It's a world of hurt!

Many thanks to Ian for hosting another bake-off!

The differences I heard were very small and I couldn't hear them consistently. I have to conclude the differences were either inaudible or barely audible in that system. As usual, I have to mention a DAC-pre is a different use case to a straight DAC with a separate pre (even if the pre is 100% transparent), and we tested them as straight DACs of course.
 
PS: Ian's system sounds really good IMO. At the end I just wanted to listen to the music without switching inputs, which says a lot!
 
You're welcome guys, and I look forward to our get together.

Darren, above and beyond the joshing, get a TT. They're just great fun, and on some vinyl just put digital to shame (for whatever reason(s) - it really doesn't matter!). The hassles are minor, and in fact are just part of the ceremony.

You know you want to. :)
 
Cheers, Ian, nice work.

For those of us with short memories, could you remind us which DACs were in play and what they were being fed with?

Whilst I'm not surprised by your findings, I do think that the fact that the Akiko Sticks made no difference casts doubt on the whole enterprise. I mean, really!
 
Thanks, Ian.

I've never done a DAC comparison myself, so it's interesting to hear your conclusions.

I'm glad Sonos did well.

Matt
 
Ian,

So is the upshot of the Electric Boogaloo II that I ought to buy a basic DAC and put the money I was going to spend on digital toward a proper plinth and arm for the mint Garrard 301 I picked up for $120?

Joe
 
Hi Ian,

Could I trouble you to post the full details of your system ? It clearly sounds jolly good and is able satisfy the brain between the ears whether it's Sonos or Young DAC

Scratching my head, as I am on my third DAC in 3 years

Ed
 
Any differences heard when using the TAG McLaren as the source into the Young Vs other sources?

We only did limited testing with the Tag, but no.

Ian,

So is the upshot of the Electric Boogaloo II that I ought to buy a basic DAC and put the money I was going to spend on digital toward a proper plinth and arm for the mint Garrard 301 I picked up for $120?

Joe

I'd buy a DAC on looks/features. Get a Sonos :)

Pics of 301 please!

Hi Ian,

Could I trouble you to post the full details of your system ? It clearly sounds jolly good and is able satisfy the brain between the ears whether it's Sonos or Young DAC

Scratching my head, as I am on my third DAC in 3 years

Ed

<source>/Tom Evans Vibe with Pulse 2 PS/ATC SCM50ASL/Room treated with GiK 244 traps.

If you're hearing differences between DACs my strong suspicion is that it's due to volume mismatch. There is some evidence from our testing yesterday that very small volume increases (<1db) are difficult for us to notice as volume, but can be seen as quality improvements, especially when analysing vocals. I suspect this opens a can of worms, but after two bake-offs, which took entirely different approaches, I'm sure enough to be selling my DAC and sticking to the bare Sonos.

If anyone else would like to run a bake-off I'd be happy to attend with a still open mind. In fact I'd really like to do this as it would change the one thing I can't - my system/room (I'm stuck with my ears/brain).
 


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