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Classic kit, what is the attraction?

MichaelC

MichaelC

pfm Member
As it says in the title.

Whilst my recent additions are for a secondary system, they certainly are competitive with today's offerings at a corresponding price point (well, I believe so) albeit not likely to replace my main system.

I could so easily have popped into Sevenoaks or the Classifieds and put together a middle of the range system but just had that hankering.

A couple of years ago my sister inherited our late parents' system (Rotel separates and Rogers loudspeakers) and it has gone to a good home. Better still not only are she and her husband re-discovering their old record collection they are back into buying records. I quite liked the Rotel system. I do though remember from when I was much much younger my father's Sony system. Quite what it was I have no recollection. Certainly not top of the line, but it still sounded good to me. That I remember, and that is what drove me to tack down the ES components.

So, what is your story...
 
For me it is the enjoyment of owning real tried and tested classic components that sound great, look great, are serviceable and compete at a level I’d struggle to justify buying new. Add to that the fact that if you do it right you can do it for investment only (i.e. owning the kit costs nothing as you get back the same or more were you to sell) and it is a no-brainer. I’ve all but lost interest in new kit to be honest aside from digital source technology, which sits perfectly harmoniously with my classic ‘60s and ‘70s kit. I’m also pretty good mechanically and can solder very neatly so whilst I have no formal electronics knowledge I’m perfectly comfortable stripping done wn record decks, recapping amps or crossovers etc assuming the information exists in the public domain (service manuals etc). I enjoy restoring beautiful things back to as close to mint/new as possible.
 
After having gone through a period of seeking "ultimate sound quality" (you know, the thing that attracts all those hi-fi superlatives that we all love) I came to the realization that that wasn't the way I enjoyed my music the most. First off, I found I was listening to the equipment more than to the music - worrying about whether it sounded as good as it did last night when I was listening to X CD or record. Secondly, you get too many boxes and too many wires stringing them together. And thirdly, you end up buying equipment that, in a funny sort of way, lacks character. What do I mean by that? Well, I have come to the realization that for me hi-fi is about more than being able to listen to music that you like ( though obviously that is a major component in it). It is also capable of giving enjoyment on other levels. Maybe you looked in hi-fi shop windows in your twenties at kit that you couldn't afford then. Or maybe you remember going to parties where some fantastic sounding system was in action. What I find now is that using my hi-fi connects me back up to some of that old enjoyment. I like the look of it and the way it feels when you use it, maybe it has an odd or quirky mode of operation. Perhaps it reminds me of how I felt when I first heard a piece of music. It has the ability to provide not only the "today" enjoyment of listening to your music, but also to remind you of your musical "journey" (horrible phrase!). Plus, if I buy nice stuff, it has an aesthetic quality, and a build quality that just "chimes" with how I believe hi-fi should look. On the question of sound, I find that any trade-off against modern equipment is small (I still enjoy my ESLs as much as any more modern loudspeaker) and very easy to accept. In fact I think too much is made of the quest for ultimate sound. In my experience, you very soon get used to any upgrades you buy into: very quickly they just sound "normal" and you don't notice them. Arguably you would have been just as happy sticking with the sound you already had. A lot of "upgrading" is really just casual consumerism ("upgrade-itis") rather than arising from a genuine need to eliminate faults that are spoiling listening enjoyment.

And lastly, it's usually pretty cheap for what you get!
ML
 
For me it started with a hankering for an old JVC amp that I heard at a friend of my Dads house when I was about 13. He played Tangerine Dream 'Exit' on Cassette and I was enchanted by the sound and, TBH, the LED, meters. At the time the UK was in the deepest of the 'hair shirt' times and meters, tone etc. were considered a joke!
So I got a beat up JVC A-X3 on eBay and so it began!
I especially like the attention to detail that top spec classic stuff has and its build quality. You can still get these in modern gear but it tends to be very expensive, but then I suppose my gear was when brand new anyway.
Ive been lucky enough to grab a couple of 'as new' items, the JVC A-XZ1010 and the Sony CDP338ESD.
BUT the main thing is the SQ, both the amp and CD easily saw of my previous NAIM and ARCAM gear, for a fraction of the cost!
I just have one last itch to scratch, a ROTEL RX602. My Dad had one and I spent most of my early music listening through this connected to some Ditton44s.
I don't need it but it would be nice to have..................and there in lies the danger of classic gear! So much out there.
 
Apart from anything else, I like the look of Classic gear.
My Quad 34/303 has a timelesss look.

Far East kit seems to 'date' very quickly, a characteristic some Far East cars have.
As for speakers, give me a wooden cabinet every time.
KEF 'Blades' may sound good, but I couldn't live with the shape in my front room.
 
Maybe you looked in hi-fi shop windows in your twenties at kit that you couldn't afford then.
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Oh yessss....
I recall drooling in front of the Quad dealers window at the 33 series. IIRC the 33 pre was £44, almost a months take home pay!
My first system was a total spend of £120. So when I discovered ebay (late 90's probably) the first thing I bought was a 33 for £45 - pocket money by then:)

It was the start of a fascinating journey. I don't share TonyL's skills to fettle my self but I am in the fortunate position of a) being able to pay professionals, and b) having an accommodating other half. I worked my way through the whole Quad ss range and keep, but don't currently listen to, nice (and properly serviced) examples of the 33, FM3, AM3 and 303. A Dynaco PAS 3 and matching FM3 both painstakingly rebuilt by a chap in USA (while my daughter and family lived there) is something I am unlikely to part with because no one else would value them highly enough.

I have no doubt there are any number of combinations of new equipment which would satisfy me sonically but have no idea at what cost because I haven't looked. The last new equipment I bought was Quad 77 range as it was being discontinued for the 99 series - about 1997, and now all sold apart from 2 power amps in a surround application.

one last itch to scratch,
Click to expand...

That's exactly the sensation. These days it only irritates in respect of sources. I have the Gale 401s, the ESL 57s, and the active SBLs, all with appropriate amps (after much experimentation).

Just need to find the right LP12, idler drive, ES sacd player to see whether I'm missing anything....

Jim
 
jimpey said:
That's exactly the sensation. These days it only irritates in respect of sources. I have the Gale 401s, the ESL 57s, and the active SBLs, all with appropriate amps (after much experimentation).
Click to expand...

What are your chosen appropriate amps for all these fine speakers?
 
What are your chosen appropriate amps for all these fine speakers?
Click to expand...

I have a Sony T AP 9000ES into a Leak Stereo 20 on the 57's. The Sony bypass facility lets me run an Oppo 105 direct using the Oppo' own volume control (and a sub on occasion) but also listen to a tuner or TT.
After using Quad 99 monos on the Gales for quite some time I stumbled on an Aragon 4004 power amp. It will stay but needs a service. Pre is a Linn Akurate.
The SBLs are driven by a pair of olive NAP 180s serviced just this week by Darren at Class A. I thought it sounded pretty good before but every one promises me I will see a major improvement once they settle down.

Three quite different presentations but all very satisfying - and before anyone asks, if I had to keep only one it would be the Gales.

Jim
 
All of my source components are all classic gear and I am just amazed how good they sound
Turntable - Pioneer PLC 590 & Garrard 401, Lenco, Techy 1200
Reel 2 Reel - I Have many but the best are the Studer A810, Technichs RS1500 and Tascam BR20 are astonishing tape machines
Cassette - Tascam 122 mk2 - Excellent
FM Radio - Rogers T100 a wonderful Tuner
I am quite happy with what I have and know that I would have to spend a lot of money to equal or better them, so why bother :)

Alan
 
flatpopely said:
For me it started with a hankering for an old JVC amp that I heard at a friend of my Dads house when I was about 13. He played Tangerine Dream 'Exit' on Cassette and I was enchanted by the sound and, TBH, the LED, meters. At the time the UK was in the deepest of the 'hair shirt' times and meters, tone etc. were considered a joke!
So I got a beat up JVC A-X3 on eBay and so it began!
I especially like the attention to detail that top spec classic stuff has and its build quality. You can still get these in modern gear but it tends to be very expensive, but then I suppose my gear was when brand new anyway.
Ive been lucky enough to grab a couple of 'as new' items, the JVC A-XZ1010 and the Sony CDP338ESD.
BUT the main thing is the SQ, both the amp and CD easily saw of my previous NAIM and ARCAM gear, for a fraction of the cost!
I just have one last itch to scratch, a ROTEL RX602. My Dad had one and I spent most of my early music listening through this connected to some Ditton44s.
I don't need it but it would be nice to have..................and there in lies the danger of classic gear! So much out there.
Click to expand...

Yes, I fondly remembered my father's hi-fi (which at the time was Sony kit) and even more amazing he allowed me to play my records on it. It was really the fond memory of Sony which led me to explore and track down the ES amp and cd player. And, you are so right about the build quality - it really is top notch. The volume control, now that is a sexy beast! What surprised me though, and I had expected good sounds, was just how damn good they sound. The cd player is still up there and easily on a par with equivalently priced kit of today. The amp, now that really is the star, power and yet with a luscious velvety sound.

I am so tempted to track down one of the Japanese super decks of the era...
 
I have three pieces of classic gear: ESL 57s (1964), Sansui Eight receiver (1971), and soon, a TD-124 Mk I (1959). For me, it’s about curiosity, fun and looks. Today, I mainly use modern speakers, amps and deck. They sound great to my ears, but I still swap in the 57s for a month or two each year. The Eight is used daily in an office system, where I listen mostly to FM radio. It is also a backup should one of the components in my main setup need service. When I get the TD-124 back from the restorer, I’ll use it in my main setup where, hopefully, it becomes a daily spinner.

The downside of classic gear is that it’s kind of addictive. Score one bargain, and it’s hard not look for others. Scanning what’s newly for sale on my local craigslist has become a morning coffee ritual!
 
Lots of sympathy with all the views above.
The thing is, solid engineering solves a problem for all time; back it up with good build quality, and perhaps appealing aesthetics (the more personal choice aspect) - and the job is done. thoroughly.

For the last decade or so I've run a fundamentally '90s high end' system that I happened across the components of, but have no reason whatsoever to move away from (esp once analysed, serviced, and where they exist, the few performance susceptibilities fixed) - Deltec/DPA amps, Impulse H2 speakers , Naim - the keeper is my modified CD2; but also ahem, quite a range of DPA dacs to hand, with a matching Deltran transport; Onix BWD1 tuner (bloody utterly marvellous), and a few other things on the side -had ESL57s; still have half a cupboard of Quad, even from the days before they were called Quad - I have a delightful 1957ish 'Acoustical FM1' still in use now and then, the matching valve AM2, an FM3, a 306, a, a, a... and the current squeeze, a serviced pair of 989 ESLs - which are, yes, marvellous.

I'm keeping it all, using it, and thoroughly enjoying this rich vein, amongst others.


Meanwhile I got an email today from a 'high end, appointment -only' dealer/pusher based in Saltford 3miles up the road trying to sell me two inline connection blocks to go inline with the speaker cables, because... <let me dig out the email>
---ah yes:

Quiescent speaker modules reveal new levels of detail and natural timbre of instruments and voices. Imaging goes wider and deeper, while with better timing cues performers now ‘play together’. Music makes more ’sense’ and presence can be startling.

We have enjoyed two sets of these radical system cleaners for a few days and we are astonished how much more is revealed.

Simply placed between the speakers and the amplifier, attached to the existing cables, the Peaks absorb huge amounts of the damaging energy driven round the whole music system by the loudspeakers, through the cable network and into parts handling the most delicate signals.

- Utter ****ery of course, and all the more annoying for being £4000 a pair: for black, wilfully-milled housebricks with in and out terminals. Of demonstrably zero engineering or acoustic value.

Meanwhile I have stunning, utterly-satisfying-to-me sound & emotional-retrieval from a choice of mix&match potential systems that together s/h - cost significantly less than this guff.
 
The sound, exitement and soldering. I have and have had many Naim amplifiers from the Salt-Lane period over the last years and the really good examples sound just the way I like it. Fast, dynamic and unforced. It's mostly used with Dpa dacs and Naim SBL, Rega Xel or Linn Kan mk1.
I have some Tandberg recievers and speakers and some Japanese kit.
One of them is a Rotel RX 602 as mentioned above and pictured under I bought some years ago. I have never tried it, but will do soon.

27006027279_be805e977a_b.jpg
 
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I feel its like photography, some people take pictures some people collect gear.
As mentioned above some of us get caught up with the equipment and the music is secondary.
I still use a vintage 80's system I bought new in about 1986ish, I am 100% happy with it, I wish I had a listening room but I haven't.
Visitors comment on how good it sounds and I can't see me parting with it any time in the near future.
A good friend of mine is slowly building a retro system and was over the moon when I gave him a silver Technics amp, for him he wants it to look Retro and just listen to his records.
To be honest I recently bought a Rega 1 and I am now thinking of selling it as I have hardly used it, its just so much easier to use the Mac and I do listen to the radio a lot.
 
Classic kit, what is the attraction?
For me it's the unbeatable value for money combination of sound quality, looks and build quality.
 
ToTo Man said:
Classic kit, what is the attraction?
For me it's the unbeatable value for money combination of sound quality, looks and build quality.
Click to expand...
Exactly you get what would cost you 4x as much to buy today and it wouldn't necessarily look better or sound better
In fact you can not buy a new R2R player now (don't know what happened to the Ball-finger?) and I would challenge a Studer R2R against a very expensive turntable / Phono-stage combination
Alan
 
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337alant said:
Exactly you get what would cost you 4x as much to buy today and it wouldn't necessarily look better or sound better
In fact you can not buy a new R2R player now (don't know what happened to the gold-finger?) and I would challenge a Studer R2R against a very expensive turntable / Phono-stage combination
Click to expand...

There is a reason you can't buy a new R2R player these days. You can buy a digital recorder and player with superior sound quality for a very small fraction of the price of what a R2R player would cost. Mechanical stuff has been replaced by (digital) electronics in pretty much everything.
 
The attraction is nostalgia, build quality, steampunk, residuals, antique, and sharing with others of same ilk who love the sounds :D
 
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