1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Where we are now: The site is back up and running! The character set encoding issue has been fixed so old posts should now look ok. I am currently working on themes/skins etc and I will be deleting the temporary green skin very soon as it has many issues. I will do a very quick variation on the stock blue skin first just to get a light-grey background and san-serif font, and I will set this as default. Later this week I will hopefully add a professional third-party skin in pfm colours (life is way too short to do this crap myself, and I've found one I really like than needs next to no tweaking). We are getting there slowly...
    Dismiss Notice
  3. May I please request people check and update their email address if it is out if date. I ask as I’m getting countless bounce errors as the server fails to send notifications through etc. I’ll eventually figure out how to send these to a black hole somewhere, but it makes sense to address it at source as quite a few folk are obviously not getting the thread and conversations notifications they have set in their preferences.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

Challenge From Harbeth - Free M40.1 For Those Who Can Identify Amplifier Differences

Discussion in 'audio' started by ryder, Apr 6, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr pfm Member

    I think you can reasonably infer that I prefer to listen to one amplifier over the other. Ownership isn't really a consideration. Which does tend to imply that the audio quality was the overriding criterion.

    FWIW, the one I kept is not as nice to look at as the one I got rid of, in my personal and subjective opinion, so if pride of ownership were the factor at play here, I think that would work against your point.
  2. darrylfunk

    darrylfunk Banned

    what is your system and what are the amps in question?

    did you match the volumes accurately to?
  3. Dinovector

    Dinovector pfm Member

    Which is the point I was trying to make earlier before you saw fit to try to belittle me

    What puts pay to proper discussion is people diving in with sarcastic comments. You are prone to throwing your weight around, you do this all the time with poor Steven Toy (not that I agree with him at all). All I did was tell you what I thought. Speak to me politely and I'll do the same, if you don't like the response then ask yourself why?
  4. sergeauckland

    sergeauckland pfm Member

    No argument there, but as you didn't do a blind test between them, how can you be sure that you're actually hearing any difference. The preference for which one you listen to could have nothing to do with any sonic differences, or it could be the whole reason for it. What I'm trying (and failing, obviously) to convey, is that there's no way of knowing why you prefer one amplifier to the other, It could be sonic, or it could be the feel of the remote control or volume knob, who knows and how can we know?

    To some, of course, it doesn't matter, just the fact that you clearly prefer one to the other. To the Alan Shaw test (remember that? There's a whole thread about that) it matters because that's what he's trying to ascertain. Do people's amplifier preferences have anything to do with what they sound like?

  5. sonddek

    sonddek pfm Member

    I don't think you're getting Suepertweeter's point (I won't be calling him Sue ;-)

    His point is that even Serge now admits that 'transparent' amps can sound different, and his position is now riddled with self-contradiction. It's been a long time since I've taken anything he says seriously, to be honest. I don't give a crap about ownership or looks or all that crap. I listen in the most patient and objective way I can, and just like Suepertweeter, if a bit of kit has me listen less over a period of months, because of some kind of reduced enjoyment, then it goes. Often I can't hear a difference between components - I'm not scared to admit that either. In many cases, expectation bias is being overstated because not everyone is equally susceptible to it. Serge seems to suffer from the variety of expectation bias that stops him hearing anything he doesn't think he'll be able to measure.

    In brief, I'm more inclinded to believe that Suepertweeter heard a subtle difference between two amps than that he was swayed by the feel of the remote. He seems pretty articulate, skeptical and sensible judging by his comments, whereas Serge seems like some kind of Dr Frankenstein trying to shoe-horn everybody else's experience into his own slightly patronising theory.

    Flame away ;-)

    By the way, I infer Suepertweeter's gender from the hunch that a woman would be unlikely to concoct a bizarre Cornish/Welsh surname in order to encrypt the name of a slightly esoteric hifi component into his username. Apologies Suepertweeter if I'm incorrect ;-)
  6. Dinovector

    Dinovector pfm Member

    OOOH ERRR!!! LOL where's that great laughing smiley when you need one? Well spotted :D
  7. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    And another nail gets hammered on the head. Excellent post there, 'tis what I've been saying for ages.
  8. darrylfunk

    darrylfunk Banned

    i put 'no offence' when i critiqued your 'outburst'

    you then said 'bollocks'.....

    and your asking for respect?
  9. darrylfunk

    darrylfunk Banned

    what point have i missed in asking what the gear is?
  10. sonddek

    sonddek pfm Member

    That Suepertweeter is the kind of listener who doesn't care what the gear is, and therefore isn't interested in identifying the components he's talking about so that we can waste another five pages on a brand-loyalist pissing contest?
  11. Dinovector

    Dinovector pfm Member

    No I asked if that was aimed at me!

    Was the post in question which had no bearing on my previous post in the context it was meant
  12. sergeauckland

    sergeauckland pfm Member

    Nonsense. I've not said anything of the sort. When evaluated blind and level matched, transparent amplifiers cannot sound anything but identical.

    However, if either not level matched or evaluated sighted, then anything can happen.

    No inconsistency there.

  13. Michael P

    Michael P pfm Member

    Isn't Serge's "patronising theory" the scientifical explanation, i.e. psychoacoustics? I suspect he doesn't have a great deal of time for creationism or reiki either. That isn't an assumption I would make of anyone who denies scientific theory in favour of their own infallible judgement, though.
  14. Dinovector

    Dinovector pfm Member

    This is true, Serge said that if they measured differently they could sound different. Well the bit I read did ;)
  15. darrylfunk

    darrylfunk Banned

    i first posed the question to people in this thread as #595....still no takers....as far as i can tell the reaction to music is in the listener not in the amplifier unless designers now can design in an empathy circuit which adds a little bit of 'soul' if required.....

    so your view that an amplifier can make some kind of decision over the music being played through it and add the appropriate je ne sais quoi is scientifically unproven to say the least.....
  16. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    I find listening to my music in the dark more enjoyable than under bright light.
    Thought I'd mention this because it's important to understand some people are more interested in the music than technical specifications that mean nowt to 99.9% of the population anarl.
  17. Errol

    Errol pfm Member

    If I am in bright light I wear sunglasses and a wide brimmed hat! :p
  18. MVV

    MVV pfm Member

    I think the plan is to so comprehensively bore the potential constituency that might be interested in the outcome of this challenge so that no-one cares when no-one can hear any difference. Normal service can then resume and we can all start talking about the difference between a Hi-cap and a cloned hi-cap.

    TL: Thread continued here.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page