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Challenge From Harbeth - Free M40.1 For Those Who Can Identify Amplifier Differences

Discussion in 'audio' started by ryder, Apr 6, 2012.

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  1. Interzone

    Interzone pfm Member

    3 pairs take 2 days? So in 5 days 3x2.5=7.5 pairs a week on average which is pretty much 8! Am I missing something here?
     
  2. Dinovector

    Dinovector pfm Member

    I suspect Lugbutz is more likely to be hosting the challenge rather than making it
     
  3. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Then we might as well close all the audio forums, there's not much else left to discuss. Start with the DIY forum, why build anything electronic when you can buy a Behringer for less than the price of a good pair of heat sinks?
     
  4. darrylfunk

    darrylfunk Banned

    some people like different stuff.....
     
  5. Dinovector

    Dinovector pfm Member

    Can't close the forums, where the hell else are people going to go to throw dirt at Naim and Linn? :p
     
  6. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It all depends on the parameters of the test. I am certain that the amplifiers *that Harbeth owners typically use* do not always sound alike, though whether the test will represent the installed userbase is as yet unclear.

    It may be interesting to list the amplifiers used by Harbeth owners here on pfm to establish diversity or lack thereof.

    I've owned two pairs of Haerbeths; Compact 7ES and SHL5s. Over that time I used a Naim Nait 2, an A&R A60, a Densen Beat 100, a Prima Luna Prologue 2, a Quad 303, a Rega Brio and Rob's modified Quad 34/306.
     
  7. Elephantears

    Elephantears Trunkated Aesthete

    Good idea - but shall we start a new thread so that its not lost in the blah.
     
  8. regafan

    regafan pfm Member

    Interesting thread...
    Wonder how many extra pairs of speakers have been ordered since it started?
    Maybe it wasn't a marketing intention, but its sure taken off.
    And all this before the test and results.
     
  9. John

    John pfm Member

    You must have really been deluding yourself during that stretch. Thank goodness that period has passed.
     
  10. lugbutz

    lugbutz Member

    I like this... This is funny.. Alan Shaw traveling oncognito.. I can hear the music Now a version of Get smart and James Bond!

    Hilarious to think Shaw is running around trolling forums in disguise!

    Not just me either... Bet ya most of the supporters are Shaw as well!
     
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I don't follow? In what way? I also don't understand your insulting tone.

    I bought the Compact 7s just over a decade ago as they were boxed, in near mint condition, and priced about 350 quid below market value. I planed to use them for a month just to get a BBC monitor fix, and then flip them out at a substantial profit. I ended up really liking them and kept them for around 5 years, in fact until the 1st pair of Tannoy Golds showed up. When I first bought them I was using a Naim Nait 2 with Kans. The Nait wasn't up to the task, so I flipped it out for a Beat 100. I also tried the A60 I had in the other system (which helped me establish the Nait was underpowered). I eventually upgraded to the Prima Luna.

    The SHL5s were widely discussed here, and yes, I fully admit I made a mistake. A nice speaker, but I'd set the bar too high and found them a step backwards from the Tannoys. Even so I tried every amp I had to hand before flipping them back out, as yes, I do find amps make a difference.

    FWIW I've always been an opportunistic hi-fi buyer. I've zero time for magazine / dealer ideology, marketing rhetoric or fashion and I've always done my own thing in my own time. I find the journey itself interesting - I'm one of those strange folk who actually like to learn for themselves.
     
  12. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    I've no problem with anything you've ever posted to me, darryl. My own comment about having a drink was a joke as well, hope you enjoy one this evening.

    I must have missed any name-calling by anyone.
     
  13. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    That's the whole point Brian.
    Most amplifiers in use sit between the cheap Behringer and the expensive Krell, and in use they cannot be differentiated via listening unless you clip them or use silly loads.

    So no, we shouldn't have to give a damn and should actually be focussing on the things that matter. That's the whole point of the argument, certainly from my POV.

    Wires and digital (certainly in recent years) fall into the same category. The science required to understand these things is relatively simple and we should be able to move on and tackle the real problems in audio.

    Just how many decades do we need to understand these simple things?
     
  14. John

    John pfm Member

    Sorry, no insult intended, just a bit of sarcasm based off of Alan Shaw's theory.;)
     
  15. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    Excellent post. I thought it needed re-tweeting.
     
  16. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Ah, I get it now! My current amps are even more characterful!
     
  17. Tenson

    Tenson Trade: AudioSmile

    Maybe I should get Eunji to have ago ;)

    I think the problem here is setting up all the required switching gear. Although not too hard, just some power relays.
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    I heard those very HL5s up at Tony's and also heard a difference between the PL and 34/306. But then so there should be with about 4 ohms difference in the output impedance!
    The changes were perfectly in line with how this technical difference should change the sound. The changes were concentrated at the points were the load is most reactive - around the crossover point and system/port resonance.

    Why is knowing this important?
    Many argue that the end user just doesn't need to know this.

    Well I'd argue that this is the best defence you can possibly have against the spin that has already been mentioned. Spin that costs money, can lead to wrong decisions and hinders progress.



    Good question Joe.
    I can't actually think of one - which probably indicates the its pretty easy to make them!

    You could probably find some budget amps that are sufficiently 'off' or some of the odd things that turn up on eBay these days, mostly from China.
     
  19. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Using ears alone I'd argue the PL2/SHL5 combo was more balanced / accurate overall: it sounded closer to the sound I get from my HD600s than via the 34/306, which sounded rather small, dry and mid-centric by comparison, though very smooth and nicely detailed. I tend to use cans as a reference, the closer I can get the system to them the better IMO. It's one of the things I like a lot about your 63s, they have a very headphone-like tonal balance.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Tapehead

    I thought the PL made them sound honky and coloured.
    I thought you did too?

    I'd substitute tighter and more agile for your small and dryer though.
    Sighted though, so all questionable.

    It would make a good candidate for the Harbeth challenge so long as output impedance wasn't on Alan's Radar.
    Shame its gone - could've bagged you some M40s :)
     
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