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Cartridge and phono stage chit-chat

Or better still the Dartzeel 18NS. The phono in that is as least as good as the H3000 so good value given that you get a world class preamp thrown in.
 
Or better still the Dartzeel 18NS. The phono in that is as least as good as the H3000 so good value given that you get a world class preamp thrown in.

I already have a world class preamp.

Before I started this thread I had a little bet with myself. I won the bet.
 
Bub,


this is a bit of a left of center suggestion, but I see you contemplating a two box phono pre, which, with your pre amp (which is also a two box affair), would leave you with four boxes.

IIRC, at some point you were also looking around for a replacement for your 52, so have you considered "just" getting a really good pre amp with a top class phono stage built in? KISS and all that, less boxes to worry about and a clean, straightforward setup, with your active ATCs. This might just do the trick, and it would probably be the last pre amp you would ever buy (sort of the pre amp equivalent of your ATCs).

Anyway, just a thought.


Cheers,
Samuel.

Hi Samuel.

I don't need to change my preamp. Just the phono.
 
I don't need to change my preamp. Just the phono.

I'd not rule it out. The 52 has to be fairly long in the tooth by now and due an expensive service (assuming you've not had it done already), it would give you the option to get something with balanced outs which would better suit the ATCs, and reduce the box-count too by getting something with a good inbuilt phono stage. What's not to like?

PS I've no ideas at all what to suggest!
 
I already have a world class preamp.

Before I started this thread I had a little bet with myself. I won the bet.


You are an odd chap at times Bub. I don't think Dartzeel are too worried about the Nac52. Even their integrated amp (which I have heard) would make mincemeat out of the 552 and everything below it.

As Tony says, it might be worth looking into and it reduces box count too. Graham tricker does a seven line stage with a built in phono and that would be a good shout too which would also cost a damm site less than a 52/SC/P30r.

Or, you could just get a stageline. Apparently its also world class. I know this because a Naim fan really loved it in his system and had yet to hear much else so he once said on the internet somewhere that it was world class. :p
 
You are an odd chap at times Bub. I don't think Dartzeel are too worried about the Nac52. Even their integrated amp (which I have heard) would make mincemeat out of the 552 and everything below it.

This is nonsense. Nothing makes mincemeat of a 52 or 552. You'll get some subtle differences perhaps compared to other good pres.

Most of the difference between stages boils down to loading and RIAA errors and these aren't related to cost, other than being able to cost-in high tolerance parts.

James, just try a few units without worrying about the price tag too much. What you have is already excellent and nothing is going to blow it away.
 
You are an odd chap at times Bub. I don't think Dartzeel are too worried about the Nac52. Even their integrated amp (which I have heard) would make mincemeat out of the 552 and everything below it.

As Tony says, it might be worth looking into and it reduces box count too. Graham tricker does a seven line stage with a built in phono and that would be a good shout too which would also cost a damm site less than a 52/SC/P30r.

Or, you could just get a stageline. Apparently its also world class. I know this because a Naim fan really loved it in his system and had yet to hear much else so he once said on the internet somewhere that it was world class. :p

OK. Here's a challenge for you: hop on a plane with a £3k phono stage of your choice which will beat the Moon.

I don't think it will happen, because I don't think you really know what you are talking about, but there's an outside chance.
 
OK. Here's a challenge for you: hop on a plane with a £3k phono stage of your choice which will beat the Moon.

I don't think it will happen, because I don't think you really know what you are talking about, but there's an outside chance.

No thanks. The sound I like and seek is very different to what you value.

I HAVE tried to be helpful though by recommending what I think would be good according to YOUR tastes and YOUR current system. (TE SRX, Whest RDTSE, Esoteric )

So having heard and indeed part exchanged a LOT of stages in the last 12 months or so, not only do I know what I am talking about, but I am also framing my answers with YOUR ears in mind rather than my own selfish persuasions (or what I have in stock both new and used). But as your reaction to the Benz comments and the combined phono/pre suggestion shows, you don't like advice too much and seem to operate from a position of prejudice and/or ignorance.

Buy the Moon. If it makes you happy then go for it. Like the Nac52, it probably can't be bettered. Or if you liked the Whest house sound then get the RDT SE Whest which is unquestionably a big jump from the PS30 and available at around 3k used.
 
No thanks. The sound I like and seek is very different to what you value.

I HAVE tried to be helpful though by recommending what I think would be good according to YOUR tastes and YOUR current system. (TE SRX, Whest RDTSE, Esoteric )

So having heard and indeed part exchanged a LOT of stages in the last 12 months or so, not only do I know what I am talking about, but I am also framing my answers with YOUR ears in mind rather than my own selfish persuasions (or what I have in stock both new and used). But as your reaction to the Benz comments and the combined phono/pre suggestion shows, you don't like advice too much and seem to operate from a position of prejudice and/or ignorance.

Buy the Moon. If it makes you happy then go for it. Like the Nac52, it probably can't be bettered. Or if you liked the Whest house sound then get the RDT SE Whest which is unquestionably a big jump from the PS30 and available at around 3k used.

OK, I thought it wouldn't happen, and I was right for the second time. You are the sort of person who knows it all, and can always think of something allegedly "better". Hi-fi top trumps is great fun, but not desperately helpful.

I think selling secondhand hi-fi is a pretty boring / unfulfilling way to make a living, but if it makes you happy then go for it

Robert, thanks for the sensible advice.
 
As I say I have tried to help you but you can't appreciate that and now, because I don't happen to hold your first loaner in a very good light now you are acting like a wounded child and trying to hurt me back with personal comments. Pretty pathetic Bub.

If you are really only ever going to follow your own sheltered dogma why bother starting these threads ? Holding up a mirror for a second, I think you will see that you play the Top Trumps game as hard as the next man, until the cards reach the level of your own system that is. When experience shows you a better card than that, you pooh pooh the game and start crying like a baby (the Moon, The Benz and the Nac52 all being prime examples on this thread).

Funnily enough I have a TW Groove Anniversary, an Art Audio Vinyl 1, the complete Allnic range, a Whest RDT, an Audio Research REF 2 and an AMR all in stock or due in... all highly respected at their pricepoints. I don't get on planes to sell phono preamps (what a silly challenge) and I come on 'PFM Audio' for amusement and banter rather than to sell, but I would have been happy to post you any combination of these to try but you've run out of favours from me now. Best of luck in your laborious vexatious quest.
 
Hi James,

well the price tag seems to be spiralling! At more down-to-earth levels it seems odd to discount the Naim Superline in the context on your system. It doesn't suffer from the 'caramac' balance of some post-2002 Naim electronics. It may suit your system. Try one at home though as they can be sensitive to RF interference and the SME PSU seems to kick-out a reasonable amount of noise. Having said that the Naim is silent in my application albeit with occasional bit of Radio Bulgaria at certain times of the year (christ knows why Naim tuners are so insensitive their phono stages seems to have world-class demodulators...).
 
Hi James you seem to ne set on the moon but i would you suggest you also try the whest 30se,i would say get the 52 serviced(pots 8 etc)
 
Hi Samuel.

I don't need to change my preamp. Just the phono.


Bub,


I don't know if the Accuphase is any better than the 52, it certainly has a more advanced volume control than the Alps pot used in the 52, so you shouldn't get any channel imbalances at low levels (like I did with my nait3), and the usable range of the volume control should be much better*.

The phono stage in the Accuphase pre amp I linked to has several loadings on offer, so you should be able to find the one that suits your cartridge. Furthermore, comparing the build quality of Accuphase with olive naim gear is a bit like comparing a PP with a Swatch.

Thus, my main reason for my post was not necessarily out of improving your pre amp / phono stage (I am sure what you have is already rather good from a SQ POV), but for straightening out the system. You don't strike me as a Hi-Fi box collector, and replacing 4 boxes with one would be an interesting proposition for me at least - 'less is more' and all that.

At the end of the day, it is of course your ears, your wallet ... and your rack space. Best of luck with your quest!


Cheers,
Samuel.


*Have you tried any attenuators yet?
 
I'd not rule it out. The 52 has to be fairly long in the tooth by now and due an expensive service (assuming you've not had it done already), it would give you the option to get something with balanced outs which would better suit the ATCs, and reduce the box-count too by getting something with a good inbuilt phono stage. What's not to like?

PS I've no ideas at all what to suggest!

Sometimes no pre-amp!

I had an 82/Supercap and tried a 52 but felt that it didn't offer that much more for the inflated price so went with an Avondale Grad1/TPX1 combo that was so much better.

Today I don't have a pre-amp as both my phono stage and DAC have their own in-built pre amplification and volume control. Oh yes I did try them through the Grad1 but in the end the sound was better without the pre-amp. I guess that you can eventually have too many stages and that causes some degradation.

My phono stage, DAC and Mac Mini all sit neatly on one HiFi shelf.

Cheers,

DV
 
James,

before I forget the other phono stage that I've encountered that works well is the Attwood (actually there's two a normal and a deluxe). Sounded good to me and seemingly impervious to RF interference.
 
BUB

As mentioned by Martin above, a used Superline should be considered; however, Superlines only really shine when fully maxed out, making this not cost effective, possibly. Yup, RFI can be a problem in some installations.

There's no question of the 552's superiority over the 52; here I can speak from personal and others' experience. I don't particularly like the 552, as it's unnecessarily complex with input mapping etc., but it is a 'see through' pre., as it should be at that level.

As Artist says above, if you haven't had your 52 serviced for over a decade and had the pots 8 improvement. you are probably behind the curve sonically.
 
Hi James you seem to ne set on the moon but i would you suggest you also try the whest 30se,i would say get the 52 serviced(pots 8 etc)

Hi Del,

No not set on it. It's the first I've tried.

Martin, thanks for suggestions. This could be a long quest.
 


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