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Brexit: Article 50 to be triggered 29 March

I can't remember a government in my lifetime who hasn't been illiberal. Its the economics we should be worrying about most, the 'democracy' stuff was all crap methinks.

Unfortunately you're right, but at least (some) prior governments gave some concern to the economy.
 
Tony
If you want a list of how we ended up here...

1. Labour over spent in the noughties leaving this country with a **** off deficit to close.
2. Nobody wants to pay for said deficit. Everyone thinks every other person should pay for it.
3. The moment anyone tries to take action to close the deficit they scream and shout like the latest NICs debacle.
4. As nobody wants to pay for deficit the government has to cut costs reducing services and investment leaving country in disrepair and struggling.
5. At the same time the country has significant population growth with uncontrolled migration. Services can't cope, there is not enough investment etc. That element can be traced back cross party as whilst labour can be blamed neither the coalition nor Tories did any better.
6. The racist slur was used and is used too much by the liberal left which alienated a lot of right and central voters.
7. The EU and Cameron failed to acknowledge this coming in 2015 when Cameron tried to negotiate with EU. A few more concessions probably wouldn't have resulted in brexit.
8. Corbyn as leader of labour failed to support remain at the time of voting in any meaningful way.
9. The remain campaign was too antagonistic.

Points 1-5 are just plain wrong I'm afraid. There is hard evidence to disprove every one, in fact just reading say Matthew R's posts here will do just that. Just look at borrowing and you will find this failure of a Tory government has borrowed far more than any Labour government in history (including obviously 13 years of Blair/Brown), and has done so because the whole "austerity" charade is just wrong-headed thinking. An economy simply does not function like a household budget, not even like a multi-million pound household budget like that of the new Evening Standard editor/very part-time MP Osborne. Points 6-9 do have some credbility.
 
But why have the Tories borrowed so much? To pay off the debts owed by the banks who lent so recklessly during the Blair/Brown boom. Cameron was Blair Pt II, Teresa May is Mop up lady, rather than Iron lady. She didn't even want out of the EU in the first place.
 
To blame the corruption and cocaine-fueled greed and excess of the privately owned financial services sector on Labour is just insane. That the Tories spent that whole period arguing for even less regulation of that industry is also an inescapable fact that those looking at recent history via right-wing revisionist goggles maybe need to ponder. It also should be noted that the epicentre of the whole failure was Republican America, i.e. somewhat out of UK jurisdiction! I think we actually have a lot to be greatful to Brown/Darling as they managed to just about keep the wheels on and avert a full scale bank-run and currency collapse. They even had the economy back showing slight signs of growth prior to 2010 when Osborne took over and sent the country back into a deep recession with his idiotic and now obviously failed "austerity" debacle. The country only started very slowly recovering when Osborne reversed out a bit and very quietly adopted something a lot closer to Ed Balls' spending plan, but by that time much of the damage we see now had already been done.
 
To blame the corruption and cocaine-fueled greed and excess of the privately owned financial services sector on Labour is just insane. That the Tories spent that whole period arguing for even less regulation of that industry is also an inescapable fact that those looking at recent history via right-wing revisionist goggles maybe need to ponder. It also should be noted that the epicentre of the whole failure was Republican America, i.e. somewhat out of UK jurisdiction! I think we actually have a lot to be greatful to Brown/Darling as they managed to just about keep the wheels on and avert a full scale bank-run and currency collapse. They even had the economy back showing slight signs of growth prior to 2010 when Osborne took over and sent the country back into a deep recession with his idiotic and now obviously failed "austerity" debacle. The country only started very slowly recovering when Osborne reversed out a bit and very quietly adopted something a lot closer to Ed Balls' spending plan, but by that time much of the damage we see now had already been done.
But Labour were in power, who else would you blame? I woudn't say the Tories would have done things differently, far from it, I'm just saying Blair was the most right wing leader the Labour party have had to date, we all know about his rewriting of labour party policy, I don't blame him, he saw the 'left' was dead, he left a legacy which Cameron tried, but failed to carry on, shame, cos Blair wouldn't have dreamt to have left something so important as EU memberhip up to 'the people'. And if you think economic 'growth' figures mean anything in the real world your wrong.
 
To blame the corruption and cocaine-fueled greed and excess of the privately owned financial services sector on Labour is just insane. That the Tories spent that whole period arguing for even less regulation of that industry is also an inescapable fact that those looking at recent history via right-wing revisionist goggles maybe need to ponder. It also should be noted that the epicentre of the whole failure was Republican America, i.e. somewhat out of UK jurisdiction! I think we actually have a lot to be greatful to Brown/Darling as they managed to just about keep the wheels on and avert a full scale bank-run and currency collapse. They even had the economy back showing slight signs of growth prior to 2010 when Osborne took over and sent the country back into a deep recession with his idiotic and now obviously failed "austerity" debacle. The country only started very slowly recovering when Osborne reversed out a bit and very quietly adopted something a lot closer to Ed Balls' spending plan, but by that time much of the damage we see now had already been done.
Tony, you come across as the sort of left over who enjoys nothing better than to spend their Saturdays protesting against something or other,I imagine your creaky old face protruding from a chequered scarf, placard in hand, screaming, red in the face, 'BLIAR! BLIAR!', or more up to date, 'do not deny the authority of the judiciary', oh you rebel you. I bet you voted SDP in the 80s.
 
Have to say as a sceptic I haven't read anything positive about Brexit. What puzzles me is that a Tory government got us out of the EU when it took us quite a long time and hard work to gain membership in the first place. Any leave arguments I've heard have all been to do with democracy, but now the excitement clearly seems to have fizzled out from this quarter. May'be if others leave, then the whole lot unravels, not as way out as it may sound. Anyway, I hope its not gonna be the catastrophe some are predicting. May'be a bit of wobble, a readjustment, and back to relative normality, who knows with all the red tape cut, UK business may thrive again!! I think not.

Even the old red tape nonsense is a specious argument. Any trade deals will have to meet those and non-EU trade partners who also trade with the EU are not going to operate two sets, one for Brexit Island and one for the EU.
 
Tony, you come across as the sort of left over who enjoys nothing better than to spend their Saturdays protesting against something or other,I imagine your creaky old face protruding from a chequered scarf, placard in hand, screaming, red in the face, 'BLIAR! BLIAR!', or more up to date, 'do not deny the authority of the judiciary', oh you rebel you. I bet you voted SDP in the 80s.

So, no comment on Tony's takedown on your previous post were he quite correctly called out your points 1 to 5 as complete drivel. Your response is to have a go at Tony. It says much for the quality of your other posts which are equally aggressive and unappealing. Play the ball not the man.
 
A tweet from someone calling him/herself BrexitBabies, and shewn of the Guardian's Brexit Weekly page https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/21/brexit-weekly-briefing-uk-rift-widens-as-may-names-article-50-day, seems quite a neat summary of the UK's relationship with the EU:

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Tony, you come across as the sort of left over who enjoys nothing better than to spend their Saturdays protesting against something or other,I imagine your creaky old face protruding from a chequered scarf, placard in hand, screaming, red in the face, 'BLIAR! BLIAR!', or more up to date, 'do not deny the authority of the judiciary', oh you rebel you. I bet you voted SDP in the 80s.

Funny how online images are. I think I may have spotted you once when I was channel-hopping and accidentally stopped on the Jeremy Kyle show. You weren't the presenter.

PS Colin, that wasn't his post, I don't think he is bright enough to frame a post that well. I doubt he is long for this place to be honest...
 
Play the ball not the man.

Oh I don't know, sometimes it can be fun ;)

Plenty of other examples if you wanna wade through Google. Also the creation of 'safe spaces', trigger warnings, micro aggressions, the term 'snowflake' is most apt.

If I was you I'd start by learning the terms ignorant, dumb and gullible before moving onto the ones you quote.

Oh really? Listen ****face, I don't have to stoop to directly insulting people when I post, oops I just did. Well anyway, if you want to ignore a very obvious and worrying trend amongst undergraduates, and in society as a whole that's your problem.

Calm down snowflake, do you need to go to a safe space.
 
I think Mike may need a little sympathy rather than scorn- he tends to get fruitier late into the night. Could be a fluctuating sobriety issue.
 
Points 1-5 are just plain wrong I'm afraid. There is hard evidence to disprove every one, in fact just reading say Matthew R's posts here will do just that.
They're not, and if you dig into Matthew R's favourite blogger you will find some support for them, even if it's hidden under the ideology.

Brown borrowed both on and off the books to support increased spending at a time when the economy was growing and tax receipts rising*. This is just fact. And that spending cannot be turned off in a down turn. If he'd been more prudent then the situation in 2008 onwards might not have been so dire.

Paul

*I think a substantial part of that growth was fuelled by government borrowing and spending. The pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps that is best left for the occasions when it is really necessary.
 
Am I alone in totally beyond caring now? Either the idiots won and everything is trashed or we dodged a bullet. It's either going to be a train wreck, in which case I have planned for the eventuality, or I am wrong and am sitting on 3,000 tins of assorted canned euro-truffles, a cellar of nasty (none of that kwality English stuff) EU wine and a solar-powered trailer's worth of frozen sous-vide to get through...

Oh god, will the the banitza and the amêijoas à bulhão pato go together? Which Cava? Pink or Blonde fizz? Shit, shit, shit... How long does Đuveč last? The Baklava? Does it need a sherry top up every half decade?

#soon-to-be-3rdworldproblems

I feel so sorry for the younger generation.

Betrayed by aging bigots and ignorant buffoons.
 
I feel so sorry for the younger generation.

Betrayed by aging bigots and ignorant buffoons.

There's smug, self-satisfied condescension, and then there's some of the stuff that you come out with. You are honestly in a league of your own. The only mitigating factor is that you clearly haven't so much as an ounce of self awareness.

I thought some months ago that you were going to get out there and campaign for what you really believed in. Instead you are sitting in a bar in Thailand spraying your supercilious prejudices over what is in the real world an insignificant hi-fi forum where for the most part you are holding forth to the majority. Is this some kind of an exercise in needy self-affirmation?
 
I feel so sorry for the younger generation.

Betrayed by aging bigots and ignorant buffoons.

Would that be the zero hours contracts, minimum wage for many, student loans averaging £44,000, national debt of £2000 per family, £69 billion deficit, work until 71 and rising before they have a state pension.
 
The usual Liberal Elites I see trying to beat down anyone who dosen't agree with them as Jeremy Kyle show contestants. Bless them. They always seem to turn to insults, interesting, that.
 
I like the way liberal elites has now been made Liberal Elites. Some way to go before it's elevated to the prominence of REMANIAICS!!! though.
 


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