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Best starter dslr

Wait for Joe P's opinion on Nikon glass, his daughter should wake him up not long now.
I've been awake for many hours, but have been busy with stuff that collectively is my job.

Happy to help, though I should mention that most of my knowledge of Nikon glass is from using the older manual focus designs. I have a newer zoom (24-85mm f/2.8-4 AF), a newish DX zoom (18-70mm f/3.5-4.5) and the 105mm f/2 DC, but that's it for glass currently listed in Nikon's catalogue.

Cliff's the bloke to ask for the newest Nikon glass.

Joe
 
I think it makes more sense to have the 'anti-shake' VR thingeymagic in the body rather than the lens. That way, every lens has 'anti-shake' properties. Pentax had it right with the K10D, which is far more accommodating of slow shutter speeds than the *istDS I had before.

James
 
Cliff's the bloke to ask for the newest Nikon glass.

Joe

Joe, I only know what I have used.

the 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8 zooms which were designed for high performance on full sized cameras (FX digital and 35mm film) are all sharp at almost all settings and compare favourably to the prime lenses at each focal length covered. Obviously the 85mm F.4D is better at F2.8 than the zoom is at F2.8 and 85mm

In terms of some other glass I use, the following are excellent and not necessarily new designs:

50mm F1.4 AIS manual - excellent, but vignettes like a bugger at F1.4
Micro Nikkor F2.8D 60mm - excellent but a bit weird to use outside of the macro world. I also have a 35mm Carl Zeiss F2 lens which is brilliant especially for the tranisition from sharp and in focus to out of focus

I also have the following which aren't that great, but in descending order they are:

18-200 Nikkor (for DX bodies) - surprisingly sharp at F4 and 50mm - prone to barrell or pinchshion distortion elsewhere

18-50 Sigma F2.8 (for DX bodies) - possibly better than most Nikkor kit lenses, but still not that sharp at any setting below F4.

24-120 Nikkor - not sharp, not great but it is full frame

24-85 (??) Nikkor - crap really - came with my original DSLR the Fuji S1 Pro back in 2000.

I don't know Dowser's 16-85. I think I would prefer the 18-200VR

18-55 (which is really equivalent to 27-85) is a useful range.
 
I think it makes more sense to have the 'anti-shake' VR thingeymagic in the body rather than the lens. That way, every lens has 'anti-shake' properties. Pentax had it right with the K10D, which is far more accommodating of slow shutter speeds than the *istDS I had before.

James

I haven't looked into it properly but I thought that lens stabilisation is a mechanical thing, but in the body it's an image processing thing so not the same, and not as good.
 
I haven't looked into it properly but I thought that lens stabilisation is a mechanical thing, but in the body it's an image processing thing so not the same, and not as good.
No, if you shook a K10D, you can feel the mechanical thing in the body. It's a bit disconcerting to begin with, but at least you know its there. The Pentax 'anti-shake' is not processed.

James
 
Bascially, lens based moves a lens element, body based moves the sensor. Body based also works with old manual lenses as well which is important for Pentax owners (less so for Canon and Nikon) although you do have to tell the camera the focal length you are using when you swap lenses.
 
Joe, I take it all back. I am really struggling to regularly get the sort of quality I want form the LX2. At times, portraits are just fine but generally outdoor, fine conditions and at the telephoto end. Also, for eBay and forum shots it's convenient as is short burst movie clips and instant switch between aspect ratios.

The camera or me has it's limitations though and I don't get what I used to get with my Nikon slides and prime portrait lenses. I would not go back to Nikon (for the reasons of leaving me with incompatible equipment once too often) and don't want to go back to film either.

I find myself getting more interested in a Pentax K200D or an E-520 more than I initially wanted to. I suspect both will give me what I want even with their kit lenses but I know I would be buying items quickly replaced by a K300D/E-530, K400D/E-540, K500D/E-540 ad infinitum.

Now where did I put those win a D-SLR competition slips?...
 
Paul, there is nothing much wrong with the LX2 except for its poor low light / high ISO performance. A camera like a Ricoh GRD2 will run rings round it at ISO 400 and wide open / wide angle.

That said, it's extremely pocketable for the money.

If you wanted a DSLR and wanted to spend LX2 or even GRD2 money, then you can still do so with the deals available on the Nikon D40 - I'm not that convinced by the incompatibility thing being exclusively a Nikon problem by the way. You can mount pretty much any Nikkor lens from the last twenty years straight onto a D40 or a D300.

The cheaper Olympus would also be in reach. Heck even looking second hand should yield something pretty good for £200. Pentax may suit you best from what you have written given the longevity of the K bayonet.

Cliff
 
Paul,

I read on the the Fuji D-SLR forum that Fuji was blowing out remaining S5 Pro stock for 500 UKP. If you can find one at that price it's worth checking, as it has a D200 body, a nice sensor (only 6 MP, though), expanded dynamic range and more or less full compatibility with all Nikon lenses, except very old non-AI glass.

The other option is a D200, which uses the Fuji S5 body ;-), has a 10 MP sensor, and is more or less full compatible with all Nikon lenses, except the very old non-AI glass.

The above assumes you want to use your old Nikkors. If not, there are lots of other optional available, Nikon and other.

Cliff's right that you can mount older Nikkors on a D40. The incompatibility is limited to a lack of internal metering -- you can still guestimate, bracket or use a handheld meter to get the exposure right. If you were Vuk, this incompatibility would be be a non-issue.

Joe
 
I have a Nikon D50.....the only negative to me atleast is its performance in low light, although other budget DSLR may not be much better.
 
Here are some crops taken of the same scene at widest angle poss and wide open

LX2-crop.jpg


LX2

M8-crop.jpg


Leica M8 / Zeiss Biogon 21mm (equivalent to 28mmish)

s5-crop.jpg


S5 Sigma 18-50 F2.8 at 18mm (about 27mm)

I hope this helps.

Sorry just resized them all to about 300 pixels wide.
 
To be honest, old lens designs are off my menu (fine pieces of glass though they are on the end of film bodies) as I have to assume that digital sensors have required new design of lenses. Unless that is nothing more than propaganda from those whose interest it is to persuade us so.

Alas, Nikon is off my menu for combined reasons rather any one individual limitation. The omission of motors from camera bodies may or may not be justified or simply marketing pecking order, I don't know. My collection of classic lenses (all sold earlier this year) would not meter on anything below the D200 for no better reason than... marketing pecking order. Nikon did not have to cripple the D80 from providing metering of non DX lenses. My SB-28 flash was as perfect as the day I bought it but worthless on a digital body where it would not provide TTL. I do not understand why either a firmware upgrade or even different settings to take account of crop factor could not be worked into it. Instead I was expected to buy another £200 flash gun.

Basically, enough was enough and I sold up and got out as I no longer trust Nikon. An esteemed London dealer 'kindly' offered me £300 for a job lot of items which of course had cost me many times more, at least half of which had been sold to me by that dealer. Their per item price certainly woke me up. I made about £900 selling privately instead (this included F90X, FM2N, F3HP, 50mm & 85mm 1.8 AF-D, 105mm 2.5 Ai and 28mm 2.8 Ai-S, SB-28, Billingham 335).

As I have said before, to start again it feels instinctively that anything you buy today is money down the drain, such is the pace of evolution in digital. As such, vfm, using that term relatively in a world of obsolescenc appear to point me to Hence, spending low would seem to get one K200D, E520 or indeed E420 as suggested.

I'm not expecting a magic answer but thought I would post back as my current thoughts are contrary to my earlier comments in the thread. I don't like the prospect of contemplating a buy, I think it's all an absolute racket but there are no free lunches. Of course, I have to learn to get Vuk-type results out of the LX2 as it is no doubt capable of more given the right user.
 
Thanks Cliff. I might be best to explore the LX2 results in a separate thread. I would need to know how to post the pictures here in small files without ruining them. for web browsing I use easycapture but I would not for critiquing as it reduces the definition to create the nice small files which are otherwise okay for web shots.
 
Paul,

To be honest, old lens designs are off my menu (fine pieces of glass though they are on the end of film bodies) as I have to assume that digital sensors have required new design of lenses. Unless that is nothing more than propaganda from those whose interest it is to persuade us so.
There's no simple answer and it varies from sensor to sensor anyway, as pixel density affects image quality. In general, the more tightly the pixels are packed the more the sensor demands from the lens.

Good tele designs typically are as good on digital bodies as they are on film bodies, but it's a mug's game with wideangle lenses because light rays hit the sensor at an oblique angle, which can lead to blurring and aberrations. Zooms are also hard to predict. If they have a small amount of chromatic aberration on film they may have unacceptable amounts with digital. Vignetting is an issue, too, but that's one area, at least on APS-sized sensors, where the results on digital can be better than on film.

FWIW, the lenses you had (28mm f/2.8, 50mm, 85mm f/1.8 AF-D and 105mm f/2.5 Ai ) would have been very good to excellent on a modern digital body.



Alas, Nikon is off my menu for combined reasons rather any one individual limitation. The omission of motors from camera bodies may or may not be justified or simply marketing pecking order, I don't know. My collection of classic lenses (all sold earlier this year) would not meter on anything below the D200 for no better reason than... marketing pecking order. Nikon did not have to cripple the D80 from providing metering of non DX lenses. My SB-28 flash was as perfect as the day I bought it but worthless on a digital body where it would not provide TTL. I do not understand why either a firmware upgrade or even different settings to take account of crop factor could not be worked into it. Instead I was expected to buy another £200 flash gun.
Price is very important in the entry-level D-SLR market, so anything that can cut costs (loss of full compatibility, reduced features, use of cheaper labour, etc.) is sought to be competitive. A Nikon D40 doesn't compete only with a D50 or D80; it competes also with the Canon 350D and Pentax K100D. I realize that having D200-level compatibility on a D40 may add only 40 pounds to the overall cost of the camera, but that 40 pounds might make the difference between someone buying a 350D over a D40, if starting from scratch.

The other thing you have to remember is that your F3HP is a pro camera, and your F90x a serious amateur camera, so you may have become used to brick shithouses that were designed to be used for decades, not a plastic contraption Nikon hopes you'll dump after a few years.



Basically, enough was enough and I sold up and got out as I no longer trust Nikon. An esteemed London dealer 'kindly' offered me £300 for a job lot of items which of course had cost me many times more, at least half of which had been sold to me by that dealer. Their per item price certainly woke me up. I made about £900 selling privately instead (this included F90X, FM2N, F3HP, 50mm & 85mm 1.8 AF-D, 105mm 2.5 Ai and 28mm 2.8 Ai-S, SB-28, Billingham 335).
You'll always make more in a private sale because the shop wants to make money on your traded items. This is nothing new, though digital has made things worse.


As I have said before, to start again it feels instinctively that anything you buy today is money down the drain, such is the pace of evolution in digital. As such, vfm, using that term relatively in a world of obsolescenc appear to point me to Hence, spending low would seem to get one K200D, E520 or indeed E420 as suggested.
Digital moves quickly to be sure, but there's no reason why someone can't take good pictures with an older camera. Cliff's D3 runs circles around my S5, but for my pictures and needs I'd see little improvement in getting the latest and greatest from Nikon. It would be a different matter if I routinely shot at 3200 ISO and 8fps, but I don't.

Joe
 
Joe, I succumbed and now have an Oly E-510 and twin lens kit to compliment the LX2. Familiarising with a DSLR is slow work for me but I like it more each week as I discover another feature that folks like yourself will use as second nature. Like an info button to show me the settings, LOL.

Now I have to work out whether to use Lightroom, Silxypix, Raw Developer or others, learn which are all-in-one programmes and which handle part of the process. I know nothing about digital photo software save that some are for when you use raw. Thankfully I am already using Wrotniak's various articles to help with the Oly E system in general ( http://wrotniak.net/photo/43/index.html ).
 
I'm going to bring this back alive - I never bought a DSLR last year, but now want to. It will be used to take pictures of our kids, as well as by my wife when she takes a photography course.

Are the previous recommendations still sound? I liked the D40 previously, but am not up to date on available kit lenses now.

I need to get something quick - anyone aware of any deals at the moment?

Thanks! Richard
 
Any advice on whether a d40 is OK, or whether a d60 is a better option ffor the little more it costs? I'd read that the d40x has slower flash response than the d40, so have ruled this out for now.

Thanks, Richard
 


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