"Bedtime for Democracy II" - by Ajit Pai

[vuk]

is anyone following the unfolding net neutrality fiasco in the USA?

given what the internet now means to us, this is arguably the biggest attack on freedom of expression of all time (in the civilized west, at least). it is far worse than anything imposed on us by disgusting people like steve jobs or bill gates.

to add insult to injury, the orwellian title of the act is: "Restoring Internet Freedom"

here is the smiling slimeball responsible for it:

take a good look in case you run into him on the street.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I've been following it, but not in any great detail. Given what you say about it being 'arguably the biggest attack on freedom of expression of all time', is there not a first amendment argument to be played out here?

 

[vuk]

I've been following it, but not in any great detail. Given what you say about it being 'arguably the biggest attack on freedom of expression of all time', is there not a first amendment argument to be played out here?

i am not sure what can be done. congress is spineless and caters to the corporate class that wants this. i think it may be time to encourage those 2nd amendment folks in the subtle manner trump once did. both left and right (normal citizens) are totally united on this. it's an outrage.

 

[Tony L]

It looks once again to be Trump trying to erase all trace of a black president. I’d be very surprised if it gets far as the companies that actually own, design, build and run the internet will on the whole be opposed to it. Vuk once again in ‘cartoon hacker’ wannabe style cites Apple and Microsoft as the bad guys, yet I bet they will have amongst the most clout in fighting this Republican police state absurdity. It will certainly not appeal to the ethos of either company.

 

[Seanm]

It looks once again to be Trump trying to erase all trace of a black president. I’d be very surprised if it gets far as the companies that actually own, design, build and run the internet will on the whole be opposed to it. Vuk once again in ‘cartoon hacker’ wannabe style cites Apple and Microsoft as the bad guys, yet I bet they will have amongst the most clout in fighting this Republican police state absurdity. It will certainly not appeal to the ethos of either company.

AIUI the big platforms pretty much OK with it: Facebook has even been trial running it overseas (internet.org). It suits established players very well. Really, there is absolutely nothing at all progressive about the Silicon Valley ethos.

 

[Seeker_UK]

take a good look in case you run into him on the street.

Looks like the Milliband brother they don't let out.

 

[Cav]

vuk is canada's maxflinn complaining against all countries but their own, where they live in comparative freedom and privilege...

 

[vuk]

vuk is canada's maxflinn complaining against all countries but their own, where they live in comparative freedom and privilege...

i complain about canada quite a bit. we have thought crime here, along with a moron prime minister who is actually an improvement on the previous one. i just don;t do it so much here because it's not as interesting to the community as american affairs, which affect us all.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

We set up a new rival internet if necessary, Linux style and not for profit.

As far as democracy itself goes, which I thought this thread would be about, lately I've come to the stage of regarding it as over rated. Trump, Brexit and another Tory gov could just have something to do with this... There are just too many evil, selfish, lower-than-Jimmy-Saville far-right types, racists, homophobes, haters of poor people etc and I would do anything to prevent these sub human slime balls from having a vote.
Actually I rate hatred of the poor as just as offensive as racism and homophobia and it sickens me that it appears to be still regarded as fair game to have a go at benefit recipients etc.
A benign socialist dictatorship wouldn't be so bad... and infinitely preferable to the Tories!

 

[clifftaylor]

A benign socialist dictatorship wouldn't be so bad... and infinitely preferable to the Tories!

Dictatorships are always shit - can you name a good Socialist one??

 

[merlin]

Slave to the Fiction.

 

[Seanm]

We set up a new rival internet if necessary, Linux style and not for profit.

As far as democracy itself goes, which I thought this thread would be about, lately I've come to the stage of regarding it as over rated. Trump, Brexit and another Tory gov could just have something to do with this... There are just too many evil, selfish, lower-than-Jimmy-Saville far-right types, racists, homophobes, haters of poor people etc and I would do anything to prevent these sub human slime balls from having a vote.
Actually I rate hatred of the poor as just as offensive as racism and homophobia and it sickens me that it appears to be still regarded as fair game to have a go at benefit recipients etc.
A benign socialist dictatorship wouldn't be so bad... and infinitely preferable to the Tories!

The solution to these problems is more democracy.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

The solution to these problems is more democracy.

Absolutely not! The "tyranny of the majority" must be fought and destroyed. There was a thread on here recently about much the same thing but unfortunately the vote of a thicko racist counts as much as that of a Nobel peace prize winner. Whilst it saddens me to say so, i would not be surprised if a party proposing to deport all non English non white's, make homosexuality illegal, put poor people in work houses and bring back the death sentence would probably do pretty well at the moment in this ****ed up country or the even worse USA. Anyone who holds such views should be debarred from voting.... even if they are 52% of the population Possession of The Daily Heil should result in a long prison sentence of course....

Look basically I should be allowed to vet all voters and only those who agree with me should be allowed to vote

 

[matthewr]

It looks once again to be Trump trying to erase all trace of a black president. I’d be very surprised if it gets far as the companies that actually own, design, build and run the internet will on the whole be opposed to it.

It's nothing to do with Trump who I suspect has probably not heard of it and certainly doesn't understand it. And the companies who build the internet are pretty much the people to blame as this is all about mega-ISPs who have built networks attempting to leverage that investment in their battle with the content creators (Netflix, etc) largely to the determinant of the man in the street. Pai is basically shilling for those guys.

 

[Tony L]

It's nothing to do with Trump who I suspect has probably not heard of it and certainly doesn't understand it. And the companies who build the internet are pretty much the people to blame as this is all about mega-ISPs who have built networks attempting to leverage that investment in their battle with the content creators (Netflix, etc) largely to the determinant of the man in the street. Pai is basically shilling for those guys.

I’ve been doing a bit more reading and that looks like the size of it, though I remain convinced Trump is trying to erase all trace of America’s black president and for reasons of blatant racism.

Given it looks to be the ISPs in favour and the content suppliers are against I suspect it will in the UK at least end up driving competition a bit more as folk will simply transfer to ISPs who stand against it, e.g. if BT start charging more for social media access we’ll all transfer to PlusNet or whatever. I get the impression this would be harder to do in the US where there seems to be far less broadband competition for some reason. Articles in the Independent, Newsweek etc echoe this. It obviously sucks, but everything the Republicans do is shit and wrong, and I suspect there are enough who will fight it to change the trajectory over time. Oppressive right-wing Politics has so far not managed to kill the internet!

PS I don’t understand the comment earlier that Facebook are for it, they were one of the many content companies that ran a blackout in protest. It is probably them it will damage the most.

 

[merlin]

It's nothing to do with Trump who I suspect has probably not heard of it and certainly doesn't understand it. And the companies who build the internet are pretty much the people to blame as this is all about mega-ISPs who have built networks attempting to leverage that investment in their battle with the content creators (Netflix, etc) largely to the determinant of the man in the street. Pai is basically shilling for those guys.

Thanks Matthew.

Out of interest, is there a public register of the donations from these mega-ISP's to the main political parties or Presidential campaigns?

 

[Arkless Electronics]

I’ve been doing a bit more reading and that looks like the size of it, though I remain convinced Trump is trying to erase all trace of America’s black president and for reasons of blatant racism.

Given it looks to be the ISPs in favour and the content suppliers are against I suspect it will in the UK at least end up driving competition a bit more as folk will simply transfer to ISPs who stand against it, e.g. if BT start charging more for social media access we’ll all transfer to PlusNet or whatever. I get the impression this would be harder to do in the US where there seems to be far less broadband competition for some reason. Articles in the Independent, Newsweek etc echoe this. It obviously sucks, but everything the Republicans do is shit and wrong, and I suspect there are enough who will fight it to change the trajectory over time. Oppressive right-wing Politics has so far not managed to kill the internet!

PS I don’t understand the comment earlier that Facebook are for it, they were one of the many content companies that ran a blackout in protest. It is probably them it will damage the most.

No but the internet has allowed this sickness to spread at a rate unprecedented since the early 30's.... I must have been naive but I once thought, in the early days of the web, (cue "Imagine" playing in background) that the free spread of knowledge and truth and sheer information would cast a blinding light of a new renaissance of hope and justice upon humanity etc etc as people saw that we're all basically the same and on the same big blue rock hurtling through space.... That it would become clear to people how "the bosses", the capitalists, the elite, the wealthy etc etc had been manipulating and controlling them for ever and that mankind would do a collective "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more!"

In fact it just allowed all those perversions of "the human condition" which caused all the past wars, injustice, and hatred to spread more quickly...

 

[matthewr]

I suspect it will in the UK at least end up driving competition a bit more as folk will simply transfer to ISPs who stand against it, e.g. if BT start charging more for social media access we’ll all transfer to PlusNet or whatever. I get the impression this would be harder to do in the US where there seems to be far less broadband competition for some reason.

Remember in this country it's a bit different as there is some quasi-separation of network from ISP so BT is famously obliged to offer it's fiber optics at the same rate to all ISPs so that there is (to some extent) a choice for consumers in terms of the service on top of that. In the US the physical network owners are often the only choice and attempt to bundle you into buying your internet with a cable TV package. Competition from the likes of Netflix and broadband speeds meaning people can get live sport via a modern internet connection has led to lots of "cord cutting" which is an existential threat to the business model of people like Verizon. Hence they make $m of campaign donations to the right people to get legislation passed to protect their position. Pei literally used to work for them and they pretty much paid to have him appointed and do their bidding.

PS The other thing about this issue in the UK is that if you find yourself thinking BT are the bad guys in all of this you are pretty much drinking Murdoch's PR Koolaid.

 

[Tony L]

Sorry, wasn’t for a second suggesting BT were bad guys or anything, I just listed them first as they are the ISP I use, and I would transfer elsewhere if they levied additional charges and the competition didn’t.

 

[Seanm]

As regards Facebook, Netflix, Google etc. not exactly being devastated, whatever their protestations: this favours the big players, in that any ISP that slows down these services is toast. The new challengers can be strangled without anyone really caring, and with the big players benefiting. It's one more centralising pressure. As I say, check out Facebook's imperialist arm, internet.org, to get an idea of how this might suit Zucks very well. It's about packaging, restriction, monopolisation. Not just a US thing as the models developed there are exported with the platforms themselves. Internet just got sh*ttier.