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Austerity Kills People

I really don’t quite understand the problem with the concept of the workhouse.

If you cannot actually contribute positively to the economy, then in a workhousre you get a bed and the chance to contribute as much as you can. What is wrong with that?

I would dismantle the well-fare state tomorrow if I were in charge, and put back the workhouses.

I live in a flat in a former workhouse [built in 1836], and by goodness it is better built than the standard working class terraced housing of the time.

ATB from George
 
Have you ever used the Welfare State, George? You know the NHS perhaps? Or did you pay from your own financial resources?

Would you dvide the unemployed families into the undeserving poor women, who would live in your idealised workhouses; the undeserving poor men, who would live in their idealised workhouses, separate from their wives; would you sell their undeserving children into slavery with familes who contribute economically?

Or are you a massive troll or, worse, that you are sincere?
 
Dear Arkless,

But that is a quasi-liberal [actually Fascist/Nazi] solution that demeans your proposition! The workhouse offered dignity to those who could not get it any other way.

Is being a benefit failure any advance? I think not.

ATB from George
 
Cav said:
Have you ever used the Welfare State, George? You know the NHS perhaps? Or did you pay from your own financial resources?

Would you dvide the unemployed families into the undeserving poor women, who would live in your idealised workhouses; the undeserving poor men, who would live in their idealised workhouses, separate from their wives; would you sell their undeserving children into slavery with familes who contribute economically?

Or are you a massive troll or, worse, that you are sincere?
Click to expand...


I am sincere.
 
i suspect george is a "libertarian" (american variety). this is actually the sort of thing people like ron paul, elon musk and sam harris believe in. to answer cav, the undeserving are simply left to die in the streets.

 
George J said:
The workhouse offered dignity to those who could not get it any other way.

Is being a benefit failure any advance? I think not.

ATB from George
Click to expand...
The workhouse existed in an era where there was no welfare state (which you have unashamedly used) and was the only recourse for those misfortunate to be out of work.

That was a century and more in the past where many attitudes were as yours are now it seems. Most people and Governments have become compassionate and realistic.

I do not how you would define a "benefit failure". How long would one have to be on any benefit to be sent to the workhouse in your brave new(but actually very old) world?
 
clifftaylor said:
State Pension?? NHS??
Click to expand...

That is not a free lunch. I paid for my State Pension. I would rather not have, rather simply saving the accrued money. The last time I used the NHS for a health issue that was not related to injury by third party was forty years ago. I would be quite happy to pay my GP for any consultation.

ATB from George
 
George, the thread title is not supposed to be an endorsement of austerity.

My dad was out of work for many years of his adult life. This was due to a combination of ill-health and deindustrialisation in the North of England (he was a steel worker and found it hard to imagine ways of making a living other than as a manual labourer). Nevertheless he remained married to mum for nearly 60 years and raised four children in difficult circumstances. All of us have gone on to do well in different ways. He was, by any reckoning a "nobody" - not someone who will be of interest to future historians - but when he died three years ago, the church was packed with mourners and the wake was thronged with people swapping stories about him. He was a decent, generous, honest and funny man, a loyal friend, a devoted husband and a brilliant dad. Yet, according to you he was a "benefits failure".

Please think before you speak in future. The idea that you can label someone a "failure" because they have fallen on hard times and need support is at best, naive and at worst displays a profound lack of imagination and empathy. I know you love Bach but I struggle to relate the expansiveness and generosity of spirit I experience when I listen to Bach to the mean-spirited tenor of your posts on this thread.

As for workhouses... frankly, I suspect the practical difficulties of implementing a modern day version are insurmountable and I doubt even the most extreme right-wing politician would propose we return to them. Which is just as well because I find the idea morally repugnant.
 
George J said:
That is not a free lunch. I paid for my State Pension. I would rather not have, rather simply saving the accrued money. The last time I used the NHS for a health issue that was not related to injury by third party was forty years ago. I would be quite happy to pay my GP for any consultation.
ATB from George
Click to expand...

You contributed towards your State Pension, you didn't pay for it - the State paid, or will pay, the rest. You've apparently been lucky with your health, but many people aren't, and couldn't afford to pay fro private medical treatment; if you wish to pay your GP, just go private.
 
Dear Droo,

I have read your posts for many years and always found something in them worthwhile.

But this is where we might depart from consensus. I have named no individual as a failure, but to deny such people exist is to act as the ostrich sticking its head in the sand. No doubt that any system will fail in some circumstances, which is exactly why returning to the death penalty for murder will not do, but we do have to consider practicalities. There are people too thick or too talentless that they would be well served by the workhouse system.

ATB from George
 
George J said:
"... welfare state (which you have unashamedly used). “

I have not nor never would.
Click to expand...
Yes you have, ashamedly or not, having been knocked off your bike at least once. I do not remember your sending the ambulance away or refusing NHS treatment?

What about my other questions about how long one must be a benefit claimant before being thrown into the workhouse?
 
Dear Cav,

In a more reasonable system the NHS would have recovered the cost of my broken wrist [first injury] and broken leg [second injury] from the insurance of the faulty motorists involved. That is not how it works today, but it is how it would work in a better system. Today the general tax payer picks up the tab, which is plain wrong.

On your second point, then insolvency is the point a person would be offered a place in the new workhouse system. Easy really.

ATB from George
 
George, I have removed some of the AUP-breaching abuse hurled at you, but it has to be said you appear to exist in the wrong century. We live in a far more civilised and intellectually developed society than the 1800s you appear to eminate from. There is no dignity in forcing the sick and ill to work, that belongs with slavery and other blips along our evolutionary journey from chimps to something maybe a little better given enough time.
 
Dear Tony,

I have the thick skin of a nineteenth century Norwegian! Also half-Englishman, so fear not for deleting any snow flake abuse. I will survived: probably why I am less soft in my attitudes than many here.

You are very kind, but no need to be in my case. I have the mental strength of a Geoff Boycott for example ...

Best wishes from George
 
Sadly it appears you have learnt little from your native Norway, from what I understand one of the more enlightened and advanced places when it comes to state services.
 
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