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As I've always suspected ...

merlin said:
On a separate note, I do wonder just how the afflicted cope with textese and the use of emojis - particularly as they both have become part of everyday communication for many, linguistic tools which span continents and allow for the easy communication of many words and phrases.

Such developments must have them reaching for the Benzos.
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As one of the afflicted, text speak doesn't bother me at all. It is a new and different form of written English which has its own rules. That it hasn't appropriated the rules of conventional grammar and spelling is neither here nor there. What offends me is people failing to correctly use the rules which do apply, when they apply. We were all taught the basic rules and, absent any mitigating factor like dyslexia, I think people should make the effort to apply them. Like what I done there, yerknowworrimean.
 
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Have one on me Steve - in French FFS.
 
merlin said:
I was referring to the written format Rich - punctuation as opposed to tenses. There are, for instance, no articles in written Thai. Adjectives and adverbs are often interchangeable. The differences are clear and Thai remains fairly impenetrable to idiots like me in its written form. It's an analytic language so uses helper words in sentences rather than inflections to indicate tenses etc.

On a separate note, I do wonder just how the afflicted cope with textese and the use of emojis - particularly as they both have become part of everyday communication for many, linguistic tools which span continents and allow for the easy communication of many words and phrases.

Such developments must have them reaching for the Benzos.
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ahyesiseewhatyoumeannow justspacesinbetweenthesentencestheninnit
 
Crikey, are they still around? Did I see them in Uk and or Thailand?

Anyway, the word 5 in Thai is har. So they like to use 555 to illustrate laughter.
 
I try to improve my grammar constantly - but this is a never-ending journey so I try not to involve other people with it!

Some examples are embarrassing. E.g. only a few years ago did I discover fifth and sixth are pronounced "fif-th" and "sicks-th" (not "fith" and "sikth") but I didn't go to private school!

Other interesting ones: which versus that, split infinitives (which is a style thing according to some, but I like not to split them myself), fewer versus less, many versus more, number of versus amount. Professional journalists fail on these regularly which I think is poor. I still struggle with "both" - often I end up just dropping it from the sentence.

Any tips welcome.
 
I think the main benefit of good grammar is that it removes ambiguity from a statement. Some grammatical correctness ('fewer' vs 'less' for example) doesn't do that, and while I know the difference between the two, incorrect usage doesn't really grate in the way that a misused apostrophe does, because it is seldom necessary to re-read in order to understand the meaning. I find bad punctuation has one of two effects on my reading: either, I have to re-read to be sure I have understood, or, I do a sort of stumble when I come across it, and it breaks my rhythm. The same happens with misspellings. Can't help it.
 
richgilb said:
Anyway, the word 5 in Thai is har. So they like to use 555 to illustrate laughter.
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As an aside Rich, the common means of describing laughter is possibly one of the few examples of English mimicking Thai grammatically. There is no associative plural of "ha" (ha's?) and, as a verb, it is reduplicated in order to increase intensity.

I'd love to hear from those actually qualified in languages (I know nothing here) of other examples where we routinely do that in English.
 
merlin said:
As an aside Rich, the common means of describing laughter is possibly one of the few examples of English mimicking Thai grammatically. There is no associative plural of "ha" (ha's?) and, as a verb, it is reduplicated in order to increase intensity.

I'd love to hear from those actually qualified in languages (I know nothing here) of other examples where we routinely do that in English.
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I don't think 'ha' is a noun, so it can't have a plural, nor is it a verb. If anything, I suppose it is an expletive. The noun would be 'laughter' and I don't think it is clearly singular or plural. The verb, to laugh, isn't duplicated in the way that 'ha ha ha' might be thought to be duplication. I'm not sure I'd class it as duplication, though. Probably more like onomatopoeia.
 
According to my (very very brief) research it's an exclamation.

As such, so is the word "Aye" - as in "The ayes to the right".
 
Joe Hutch said:
Yebbut no deaths ensued, whereas if someone in India thinks you've killed a cow, they might hack you to bits. Ditto if someone in another part of India thinks you've disrespected the Koran.

Me, I'm quite relaxed about the grammar thing. I can spot a mistake at fifty paces, but it doesn't bother me. I get mildly annoyed if someone says 'train station' instead of 'railway station', but that's about it. I'm not mithered about cows or Korans, either.
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The Koran, or Qur'an if you prefer, is a Muslim holy text. So your comments regarding its disrespect would apply more to parts of the world more densely populated by followers of Islam. For example Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Blackburn, Bradford, Burnley, Leicester, Tower Hamlets, etc.

As an aside, I wonder how long it will be before The Daily Mash becomes the most sensible of newspapers? Wait! We're already there.
 
merlin said:
According to my (very very brief) research it's an exclamation.

As such, so is the word "Aye" - as in "The ayes to the right".
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Thought that 'aye' was Scottish for 'yes' Opposite is presumably 'nay') though why or when this Scottish derived form of voting entered our parliament I haven't a clue.
 
merlin said:
According to my (very very brief) research it's an exclamation.

As such, so is the word "Aye" - as in "The ayes to the right".
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Aye (or yes) seems to have acquired noun status somewhere along the way, though, which 'ha' hasn't. Think of "That's a 'yes' from me" or "Three 'yesses', you're through to the next round" ( (c) The X Factor). Ditto 'no'.
 
darrenyeats said:
Other interesting ones: which versus that, split infinitives (which is a style thing according to some, but I like not to split them myself), fewer versus less, many versus more, number of versus amount. Professional journalists fail on these regularly which I think is poor. I still struggle with "both" - often I end up just dropping it from the sentence.
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Few(er), less, many and more depend upon whether it qualifies a countable or uncountable noun.

E.g. 'Less than 10 items' at Tesco should be 'Fewer than 10 items', as you can obviously count them. Few(er) and many are for things you can count. Less and more are for rice, sugar, milk etc. which would be problematic to count. So, less milk but fewer bottles. Less light but fewer lights, etc.

Personally, I think the split infinitive is the more widely used and correct sounding. 'To boldly go' or 'to go boldly' ? Most adverbs in this situation sound better when they're inserted into the infinitive, I feel. Similarly, adverbs of time invariably or always split the auxiliary and particle. E.g.' I have never been late', or 'I never have been late. I'm off to quickly take my pills, or maybe I'm off to take my pills quickly. Either way, I feel a headache coming on.:(
 
merlin said:
According to my (very very brief) research it's an exclamation.

As such, so is the word "Aye" - as in "The ayes to the right".
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Aye is a noun, as is no - the ayes to the right the noes to the left; ha ha is not.
 
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