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Are Koetsus worth it?

Discussion in 'audio' started by Tim Jones, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. F1eng

    F1eng pfm Member

    I am absolutely sure you are right Paul.
    Two things stick in my mind from my time at Garrard, one was picking up buses driving by 4 floors down and across the car park on the cartridge output if the deck wasn't isolated down to a very low frequency, the other was the amount of extra but different colouration there was added by arms and cartridges.
    We only looked at the phono stage output btw, any shortcoming not effecting that was considered unimportant.
     
  2. pmac

    pmac lovesrecordplayers

    Buses eh? You wait for hours and three come at once ;)

    Still enjoying those lovely speakers, Frank?
     
  3. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones pfm Member

    That's really useful, thanks. So if the SME V's effective mass (as SME quote) is about 10g, plus the roughly 10g of, say, the cart bolts plus a Koetsu Rosewood Signature which runs at 10-12cu, it's just about inside the blue zone...but not very ideally.
     
  4. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    have you tested it in 64S vs 64x?

    i found 64x adequate for use with the mentioned MC pickups but i can imagine 64S would be better. it would be good to let us know what 30g+ tonearms you had in mind? i fail to trace anything heavier than 64S at 30g with a stock shell. FWIW i hate to add a weight via shell, you are certainly affecting a dynamic balance of the system which may become closer to a hammer (light handle, heavy top) than to a relatively evenly weight distributed combo.
     
  5. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    To my eyes that puts it right in the middle of the blue where you want it; 20g mass, 10-12cu = around 10Hz.
     
  6. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones pfm Member

    Quite right, my eyes are not what they were...

    At any rate, as a coda to this thread, I might get a dem of an Urushi when my SME is back from its service...
     
  7. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Tim, the e.m. of the Five is 11g, not 10, not that this affects too much. I've had both a Black Goldline and my current Urushi in a Five. In fact, the Vermillion was run in on the Five. I was perfectly happy, but there's no doubt that it sounded much better when I got 12" arms (with greater e.m.), though admittedly the deck changed from suspended to mass deck as well, muddying the comparative waters a little.
     
  8. F1eng

    F1eng pfm Member

    Enjoying the speakers and my TT!
     
  9. montesquieu

    montesquieu pfm Member

    Guess what just arrived?

    Yes a Miyajima Madake. Should make for some fun over the weekend.

    Should go pretty well in my Ikeda IT345-CR1 just as the Shilabe and Kansui did before it.
     
  10. pmac

    pmac lovesrecordplayers

    Very nice
     
  11. Elephantears

    Elephantears Trunkated Aesthete

    I don't see myself as an envious person, but right now...

    Enjoy it Tom; look forward to the report.
     
  12. F1eng

    F1eng pfm Member

    My curiosity piqued by this thread I read the bumph on the web-site.
    Fascinating.
    The coil design does indeed address one of the major weaknesses of conventional cartridges, and he uses a thin-walled tube for a cantilever formed such that the contact point of the stylus is near the centerline of the cantilever minimising torsional input.
    As a piece of engineering these cartridges make more sense than almost any I have seen.
    I find myself genuinely excited to read information about a cartridge that isn't the pure BS we get so often nowadays.
    Shouldn't have read it, I really don't need another cartridge...
     
  13. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    I'm bamboo zled ! £1500 above the Shilabe (or is it Kansui?). Rarefied territory, Tom. I'd be interested, as I'm sure others will be, in the improvements wrought by this cantilever. What is the e.m. of your Ikeda arm?
     
  14. G T Audio

    G T Audio Trade: Distributor and Manufacturer

    I had a Madake here last year and directly compared it to an Ortofon A95 and a Transfiguration Proteus. I produced a tape at 15ips on my Studer (with levels matched :rolleyes: ) playing 3 identical tracks with each cartridge so you can here all three cartridge together in quick succession without stopping to change cartridges.
    I have also done blind listening tests with customers to see which one is preferred without them knowing what cartridge is being played. A very interesting test this one because it threw most people and had some very interesting an uncanny outcomes...
     
  15. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    As it's a moving coil story can we please move on to the next chapter, Graham?. Presumably your stage etc. but which deck and arm.......and outcome?
     
  16. G T Audio

    G T Audio Trade: Distributor and Manufacturer

    Happy to discuss over the phone but I don't have time to document this at present. Happy to demo the tape, or people can demo the Proteus here which sort of gives a bit of the game away...

    Tests were done on a TW Raven Limited with TW 10.5 tonearm. The Tape was made on a Studer 810 with ATR mag tape.
     
  17. Elephantears

    Elephantears Trunkated Aesthete

    Graham, If you were using a 14g arm, doesn't that deny a level playing field, considering what you said earlier in this thread about the neccessity of using a heavy arm with a Miyajima?
     
  18. andyr

    andyr Registered User

    Absoloootely correct, methinks.

    Andy
     
  19. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    This caveat did cross my mind, but I don't know the arm requirements of the Proteus and A90. I have read, though of the dubious compatibility of Koetsus (generally? no idea.) and the TW arm.

    How is it possible to have a completely 'balanced' comparison between disparate pieces of the whole, each ideally requiring slightly different parameters? G.T.'s comparison, quite possibly unbiased beforehand, is about as good as one can get, surely, without a massive investment in time and equipment. I wonder how many dealers would offer that, even with a sale at the end?

    Having heard a Shilabe and owning a Proteus (both into my amplification etc.), the difference between presentations might well evince an immediate preference, but not necessarily a longer term appreciation.
     
  20. PerF

    PerF Private

    Been some decades since I had the orginal Grado Signature, a true contender to MC cartridges of that vintage.

    The best cartridge I've ever heard was propably a Decca

    Above cartridges along with other good non MC design should hopefully get deserved attention

    The EMT, Linn Krystal and Apheta/Aphelion don't get much mention either.

    Would love to hear how many % wise, that preferred the AT95 in Grahams tape contest.
     

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