advertisement


Anyone ever bought an Ortofon high end m/c new?

Hi,

i bought an Ortofon Jubilee from William Thacker a few years ago. It came in its original box with all needed accessories. The price was really a bargain.

My example had a modified serial number. One number was changed with a ball pen. I realized this as it was broken and the insurance company said that Ortofon could not find the serial number. The insurance company paid anyway, so i had no loss. But i don`t know what Ortofon would say if i wanted to have this one repaired. I still have it at home and use another cartridge now.

You might have a look at the serial number of your new cartridge...

Have a lot of fun with it!!!
 
Interesting point you make Laurence, and its refreshing to see that you have a reasonable level of support in terms of the quality of your service.

As it happens, which in fact is my original point, is that I would very much have liked to experience that for myself, but unfortunately I can't see my way towards paying £500 extra for the privilledge, and that is the figure we're talking about.

The insight into the internal dealings between Ortofon and its various distributors is probably no different form my expectations, but utterly irrelevant to my purchaing decision.

It may interest you to know that actually Thakker isn't the best possible price. That comes via Mr 2Juki on ebay, though with him it will take slightly longer for the cart to arrive and you take a chance on whether it sucessfully ducks UK import duty or not, though in practice his "unofficial" record of achieving that is quite good.

Now far be it from me to tell you how to run your business, but if I were in your position I'd be on the 'phone to Messr's Ortofon saying "look this Thakker is ruining my business, I can't compete on price and consequently my dealers are losing out on current and probably also futre business. What special deal are you going to cut me to enable me to be at least on terms and make sure that UK customers at least talk to UK retailers? How about special offer on Cadenza blues for a limited period??"

And if they come back saying he sells more than you so gets preferential treatment you should consider why that's the case. Could it be that he's selling in volume by discounting on the internet by any chance? To your customers ??


I think that would do you a lot more good than whinging on a forum whenever somebody points out the obvious price discrepancy.

The situation with the Roksan Radius looks even worse from a consumer point of view, and by your own admission is done with your connivance.

How do you think it makes your retailers look when the official channels are userped by an eBay grey market of your own creation? OK the radius 5.1 is discontinued but if I wanted a Nima (a product with quite a lot of support here) I think I'd buy a radius 5.1 on eBay, take the Nima off and resell the 5.1 armless, and by so doing I'd have neatly sidestepped the entire official market and not made any of those valuable dealer contacts.

Even worse If I wasn't interested in buying a Radius 5.1 or a Nima I've still seen the ebay deals compared to dealer prices for something fairly similar, which can only lead me to the conclusion that dealer prices are probably totally bogus for all Roksan equipment, hence edestroying the credibility of the network and reducing the chances that I'll ever talk to them about anything.

Would it not have been slightly more sensible to distribute the discontinued 5.1's through the normal dealers who could then have advertised them on their own websites and got poeple into their shops to see all their other wares, as well as the cracking deal they can do on the Radius?

You take offence when I say that I think ther's a problem with the way you do business Laurence. I'm sorry but on the basis if what I've seen and what you've said in your own defence I'm even more convinced that actually there is a problem, and its the usual one of believing that you can still do business today on the same basis as it was done 20 years ago.

Taking an analogy from my own line of work, 20 years ago we mostly bought car insurance through local brokers, and we valued their advice, personal service and added value. Now I think you'll struggle to find anyone who doesn't deal either by internet ot by 'phone and the local brokers all gave up on individual car insurance becaus ethey couldn't compete on price. Does any of this sound familiar?
 
most dealers don't want 'old' product.

the nima was i believe part of the upgrade to the .2 version - henley or roksan may confirm this.
 
Colasblue, one of the reasons that many manufacturers use distributors is because it allows them to sidestep the European courts ruling on price offers. If Ortofon sold direct to retailers then by law they have to offer all their dealers the same deals, stock allowing, they can't not offer a deal given to one dealer to another if the dealer requests it.

Having that middle tier effectively allows for regional pricing and that reduces competition and keeps prices higher in some locations than would be the case otherwise.

There's nothing wrong with selling off remaindered stock cheap as long as everyone knows it is coming and those with shelf stock are compensated.
 
Colasblue, one of the reasons that many manufacturers use distributors is because it allows them to sidestep the European courts ruling on price offers. If Ortofon sold direct to retailers then by law they have to offer all their dealers the same deals, stock allowing, they can't not offer a deal given to one dealer to another if the dealer requests it.

Having that middle tier effectively allows for regional pricing and that reduces competition and keeps prices higher in some locations than would be the case otherwise.

There's nothing wrong with selling off remaindered stock cheap as long as everyone knows it is coming and those with shelf stock are compensated.

So we agree then, whats going on with distributors is a mechanism for creating a cooperating oligopoly and hence sidestepping fair market competition legislation.

Do I think that stinks? - absolutely

Is there inherently anything wrong in offloading discontinued items cheaply? Absolutely not I've got a number of bargains that way.

But it is impossible to simultaneously operate two types of marketing with incompatible price structures without creating problems.

I've no doubt I've got a bargain and its quite possible that no UK dealer could match the price, but that being the case what's the point of being a UK dealer?

This situation hasn't exactly arisen overnight and doesn't seem to be all that temporary. The price differential in question has existed for a good few years as testified to by a number of others on here, and if the UK lot aren't actively seeking to protect thier own position, set competitive prices and actually do some business as opposed to none then they deserve to go bust.
 
most dealers don't want 'old' product.

the nima was i believe part of the upgrade to the .2 version - henley or roksan may confirm this.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROKSAN-RADIUS..._HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables&hash=item1e60b9ff0a

Looks like one of us had our facts straight before we posted!

If I sold hi fi for a living I'd be only too keen to have a loss leading bargain in my shop direct from the distributor since I might at least make a profit on a cartridge for it or something and I've got a customer on my database.

Your suggestion is like a double glazing salesman saying to his suppliers "Oh I don't want any new leads if I have to sell them a front door cheap as part of your package deal"
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Colas,

If I'm not mistaken you have an Ekos, if you get a chance, can you take a picture of the Ortofon cartridge once you have it mounted on the Ekos. I'm curious how it fits size-wise on the head shell.

A needle drop would be great also as I'm curious how it sounds on your deck.

Thanks,
John
 
Well actually its intended first destination is my Graham 2.2 on my new secondhand orbe, but I'm sure it will end up on the Ekos at some point.

I also suspect a number of bake off needledrops will be forthcoming from a variety of combinations of TT arm and cart.

I just need a linn armboard for the Orbe and as SME one for the Linn.
 
So we agree then, whats going on with distributors is a mechanism for creating a cooperating oligopoly and hence sidestepping fair market competition legislation.

Partly it is now, originally dealers gave you access to far flung territories where local knowledge was key to sales success, they could place product in retailers for you, help manage your sales channel, take some amortisation for you, provide local warranty back up and sales support- these days many of them do SFA.

That said, as someone who works for a manufacturer of products in an unrelated field, yet with identical pressures and paths to market I have seen the harm done by retailers driving others of business by adopting a sales at any price methodology. The drop their margins, competitors go out of business and then they eventually drop the brand having devalued it in the market completely and made it effectively unsaleable as they have effectively decimated the MSRP such is the expectation of price with that brand.

I'd like to avoid this with my brand, but I have few legal methodologies to ensure we aren't used as a loss leader. I see no reason why a minimum price agreement shouldn't be legal in markets where no monopoly exists, as a consumer I just don't buy the brands that are too expensive- so no one is hurt. Minimum pricing self polices, if you price to high you go out of business.
 
Colas,
If I'm not mistaken you have an Ekos, if you get a chance, can you take a picture of the Ortofon cartridge once you have it mounted on the Ekos. I'm curious how it fits size-wise on the head shell.

While not an Ekos, the Ittok pictured should give you some idea of Kontrapunkt ('h' in this case) on Linn arm (cartridge wiring is messy - sorry):

Kontrapunkt.jpg


A needle drop would be great also as I'm curious how it sounds on your deck.

Still a work in progress - am skeptical about the real relevance of comparing analogue subtleties after original signal has been bitched, buggered and bewildered through ADC and compression...

I hope that is of some use...

:cool:
 
I've had a Kontra B for a good few years now and I've only just started to enjoy it recently. I've had it in an Ittok where it sounded grey and uninspiring, then an Audiomods Rega where it was better but nothing to shout about and finally only recently I installed it in a Mentor Point One where it now sounds very nice indeed. The Mentor is a unipivot too so I'll be very interested how yours sounds in both your Graham and your Ekos arms.
 
Has anyone out there actually heard any of the Cadenza cartridges on an Ekos, in particular the aluminium cantilevered Red or Bronze versions.

I've been impresssed with a very low output Rhomann on my Ekos and am considering the Cadenzas because they should sound similar and they have a higher output.

Ortofon have a special 20% discount promotion running this month which makes the Cadenza blue around the same price as a Linn Klyde (and the Cadenza red about £200 less).
 
Has anyone out there actually heard any of the Cadenza cartridges on an Ekos, in particular the aluminium cantilevered Red or Bronze versions.

I've been impresssed with a very low output Rhomann on my Ekos and am considering the Cadenzas because they should sound similar and they have a higher output.

Ortofon have a special 20% discount promotion running this month which makes the Cadenza blue around the same price as a Linn Klyde (and the Cadenza red about £200 less).

Closest I can help you with is a Cadenza Blue on an Ittok, which I've had for a few days now. It's still running in I'd say, but I'm very impressed - it's fast, detailed, involving, and even handed with everything I've played so far.
 
The one thing I didn't like about my B was the raised line at the front on the mounting surface for azimuth adjustment. Mine doesn't have it anymore.

Have you got your cartridge yet Colas?
 
I'm a happy owner of a recently purchased Kontrapunkt A.

£399 delivered from Germany :)

Lefty
 
Really? That's one of the reasons I'm interested in the Cadenza range. IMO Azimuth is more important than VTA for corerct set up.
 
I never realised that this ridge existed until I took my B out of the box and I always felt it compromised the mounting interface though I suppose some blutak would have cured that but I never liked it. I had ( still have) azimuth adjustment at the headshell/armtube interface so out came the knife ;)
I even had azimuth adjustment with my Ittok courtesy of Audio Origami.
 


advertisement


Back
Top