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Another Kii THREE thread.

I can't understand what is good about these measurements, Keith. They look just as peaky and troughy as any I've ever taken in my room. The 200 Khz trough looks as treacherous as that gully people keep falling off along Sharp Edge, Blencathra. If you were to move that to the presence region it might help redress what I imagine (from the graphs) will be a relentless studio sound. (If, that is, I held the absurd notion that a FR graph can tell you everything about a speaker's sound.) Also, perhaps you can clarify how you do these measurements? When John Atkinson does near-field measuring, he always says that a relatively flat looking 40-100Hz region is in fact the sign of an 'overdamped' sound, since the near-field measuring technique inevitably produces a bass hump.
So look at the professionally done ones online in some of the reviews. Basically flat across the entire spectrum.
 
So look at the professionally done ones online in some of the reviews. Basically flat across the entire spectrum.

Keith didn’t measure flat across the entire spectrum. He measured a huge dip at around 200Hz and despite claiming to be able to make competent measurements hasn’t go a clue why he measured the same dip it in two different speakers. You must be disappointed to have paid over the odds for the Kiis when now, it seems, you can get similarly measuring D&Ds for a lot less. And in nice wood finishes. Never mind.
 
Andy you have to realise the difference between anechoic /free field measurements and ‘in-room’, a speaker designer can only aim to design his speakers to be flat anechoically, their response, any loudspeakers response is drastically altered by the room itself.
You can physically treat the room, or use active correction or choose speakers with a cardioid response which literally produceless off- axis propagation .
As I have said the improvement wrought by the Kiis/8Cs against even highly regarded traditional loudspeakers is blindingly obvious when you compare them in the same space.
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/singl...ome-further-thoughts-and-initial-measurements

Second graph the blue trace is the traditional active.
FYI narrow troughs or peaks are relatively inconsequential in terms of SQ .
Keith
 
AndyU, quote: Keith didn’t measure flat across the entire spectrum. He measured a huge dip at around 200Hz and despite claiming to be able to make competent measurements hasn’t go a clue why he measured the same dip it in two different speakers. You must be disappointed to have paid over the odds for the Kiis when now, it seems, you can get similarly measuring D&Ds for a lot less. And in nice wood finishes. Never mind.

Andy, I realize your main goal here is to insult people, but really try some basic reading comprehension first. I suggested the other poster look at the professional measurements done by reviewers that show the Kii to have flat frequency response instead of Keith's measurements. Is that really so hard for you to understand, or are you so anxious to post insults that you react before you actually read what's written?

And no, I'm not disappointed in the Kiis. First, the D&D weren't available when I bought so nothing to be disappointed about. Two, I haven't heard them so I don't know if I'd like them as much. Third, I was actually interested in the whole Kii package, including stands and Kii Control, because it fit exactly what I wanted in my room and setup. The D&D weren't/aren't offering the same type of package, so doubtful I would have bought them anyway. Maybe hard for you to believe, but the money wasn't the critical factor for me. Fourth, I wasn't interested in a nice wood finish. The dark grey I bought is pretty much a perfect match for my decor and is highly unlikely to scratch, unlike wood.
So, just a few more of your petty insults based on little other than assumptions which don't match reality. But keep living in your imaginary world, if it makes you feel good.
 
Basically flat across the entire spectrum.

I'm presuming you've not read my other post. The question is whether this is what we really want. It would certainly be interesting to have a proper discussion about this (which would involve talking about music).

Also, my question about the near-field measuring technique and its effect on the bass still stands. These are sincere questions, not Socratic provocations, like the questions of somebody we know!
 
So we are agreed that Keith can’t measure speakers competently.
I don't know if he can or can't and don't care. He measured in his room and his setup and that's what he got. I have no way of knowing if his measurements are correctly done or not.

Others have measured in professional situations, including in-room and in anechoic chambers and the Kii's have measured essentially flat. That's what I was suggesting to elepantears. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
I'm presuming you've not read my other post. The question is whether this is what we really want. It would certainly be interesting to have a proper discussion about this (which would involve talking about music).

Also, my question about the near-field measuring technique and its effect on the bass still stands. These are sincere questions, not Socratic provocations, like the questions of somebody we know!

I think as a generality you'd want something reasonably flat, otherwise you are going to have a very colored sound. But obviously it is also a matter of taste; and as others have pointed out, two different speakers can both measure near flat and not really sound alike. So yes, I agree how music sounds makes a critical difference - we don't listen to graphs, do we?
I didn't buy the Kiis because they measured flat. I bought them because I listened to them and liked the sound, and understood that because of their other features they'd be a good fit for my listening environment. And they are.
 
Elephantears - did you mention music>? FFS i thought the whole point was the measuring, heaven help us if there's actually music involved :p
 
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I'm presuming you've not read my other post. The question is whether this is what we really want. It would certainly be interesting to have a proper discussion about this (which would involve talking about music).

Also, my question about the near-field measuring technique and its effect on the bass still stands. These are sincere questions, not Socratic provocations, like the questions of somebody we know!
If you were purely measuring the speakers response this would be carried out very near ,a metre away, and probably use some of gateing, that is not measuring anything after a specified time, this way you take the later reflections and room modes out of the measurements.
I was measuring the entire in-room response I didn’t gate the measurements so you see the room’s contribution to the sound.
Regarding bass anechoically it should be as flat as the rest of the FR but in a room there will be, usually reinforcement of the bass frequencies and a diminhment of the higher frequencies producing a gently sloping downward curve.
Keith
 
Elephantears - did you mention music>? FFS i thought the whole point was the measuring, heaven help us if there's actually music involved :p

Quite! but several times I see the word "file" being mentioned. Has this anything to do with music, songs, tracks, albums?

FWIW, I did speak to an audio designer once who admitted he had designed a phono stage for a "large" audio company. He never built it, or listened to it, or heard it! It was just designed on paper and put straight into production... :rolleyes:
 
How far away were you measuring the speakers and at what height? This will allow us to calculate the frequency of the floor bounce dip as well as the front wall dip.
 
Would that be a preamp which adds a generous dollop of second harmonic?

Oooh, are we having a preamp competition? Yay! Here’s my new one:

26664878399_d060bb491d_b.jpg


Please notice the total lack of notch filters or other digital chicanery or shenanigans!

PS It is an Audio Synthesis ProPassion.
 
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How far away were you measuring the speakers and at what height? This will allow us to calculate the frequency of the floor bounce dip as well as the front wall dip.
Those measurements were a while ago, perhaps two metres distant and microphone at ear height approx 94cm.
I am working on some new measurements I think an averaged response of direct and various angels off-axis might give a more comprehensive view of each speaker.
 
Those measurements were a while ago, perhaps two metres distant and microphone at ear height approx 94cm.
Sod's law. If I have done my estimates and sums right they both come out around 200 Hz.

I am working on some new measurements I think an averaged response of direct and various angels off-axis might give a more comprehensive view of each speaker.
Quite the opposite. If you want to communicate comprehensive information then don't average and don't smooth but do give measurements over a range of angles. If you want to communicate nice marketing fluff then smooth and average away to get a single smooth flat curve.
 
I thought a pseudo version of John Atkinson’s, on axis and then various degrees off axis , I will chat about it with MartIjn from Dutch&Dutch.
I will check that out H, that would make sense, both speakers the same narrow dip at the same frequency.
BW Keith
 
I thought a pseudo version of John Atkinson’s, on axis and then various degrees off axis , I will chat about it with MartIjn from Dutch&Dutch.
I will check that out H, that would make sense, both speakers the same narrow dip at the same frequency.
BW Keith
Plots like the ones shown here?. Note the topic and the signature!
 
It is obvious to everyone but Keith that his not h is
No, they didn't like that he sold a directly competing product (Dutch & Dutch) and made public, direct comparisons/measurements between them. Why do you feel a need to insult Keith based on no knowledge of the situation?

You’ve already agreed that the measurements were incompetent. Why would any manufacturer wish their products to be represented by someone who publishes incompetent measurements which have anomalies, as you can see from the immediately preceding few posts, that the author cannot explain.
 


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