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America doesn’t learn

Nick_G said:
Utterly bonkers video advertisement from the NRA here, virtually calling for war against anyone who is against Trump and the NRA:

Straight out of the CHAOS rulebook.
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Again, I believe one of the results of the Dotard has been that these people feel it is ok to expose their thinking - he has flushed out these crazies so that all can now see - before they just worked in the shadows

This is a valuable service although it's completely unintended.
 
Ciunas Audio said:
How did Australia do it then? My impression is that there are as many rugged frontiers men in Oz & a similar macho mindset but I may be wrong
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Correct, you are wrong, at least partially. A good article in today's NYT explains the difference:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/opinion/australias-gun-laws-america.html?rref=collection/sectioncollection/opinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront

I lived in Australia for 20 years. It's a big country and for certain folk such as farmers, firearms are essential, for putting down sick or injured animals, or for driving off pests (although kangaroos are protected, farmers regard them as pests, competitors for often scarce grazing land). And there are keen hunters in Australia. However, most of the rest of the population has zero interest in firearms.

I did come across one example, and this illustrates the yawning gulf between Australia and the USA. I worked for years as a stagehand in an amateur musical group. When we staged Oklahoma! we needed a couple of genuine Colt-type guns that actually fired blanks. How does one find such things? The Victoria Police has a register of certified gun collectors, and we got one of these. He was the only one allowed to load them and he had to be present back stage every night to supervise their correct use. We got talking to him, and he described the special cabinet he had to have for his guns, burglar-proof and subject to regular police inspection. He said wistfully that he'd love a Tommy gun, but there was simply no way that he would ever be allowed one, even one modified for semi-automatic use. Can you imagine the NRA's reaction to such restrictions?
 
Arming teachers with guns is just stupid, it takes years or practice and constant retraining to be able to shoot a moving assailant from a distance. A far more sensible solution would be to have hand grenades in locked cabinets next to the First Aid kit, and only the good guys have the universal four-digit key-code to open it. Sure, there might be a few innocent casualties along the way, but not 17. (Trump, D. 2018. The man with a big red button)
 
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Armed, radicalized and pretty much using the language of civil war. That is who Trump is empowering.

"Guns now are the symbol of a license to hate the other: the liberals and the media and the rest who are part of a “socialist wave.” Wayne LaPierre told the cpac audience, “You should be frightened. If they seize power, if these so-called European socialists take over the House and the Senate, and, God forbid, they get the White House again, our Americans freedoms could be lost and our country will be changed forever.”
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What LaPierre seemed to be saying was that true Americans need a right to a lethal weapon in order to show that they can’t be intimidated by their political opponents. To an astonishing degree, his argument has become bald and brutal: you are the gun that you own." https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...-and-donald-trump-live-in?mbid=social_twitter
 
notaclue said:
Armed, radicalized and pretty much using the language of civil war. That is who Trump is empowering.

"Guns now are the symbol of a license to hate the other: the liberals and the media and the rest who are part of a “socialist wave.” Wayne LaPierre told the cpac audience, “You should be frightened. If they seize power, if these so-called European socialists take over the House and the Senate, and, God forbid, they get the White House again, our Americans freedoms could be lost and our country will be changed forever.”
...
What LaPierre seemed to be saying was that true Americans need a right to a lethal weapon in order to show that they can’t be intimidated by their political opponents. To an astonishing degree, his argument has become bald and brutal: you are the gun that you own." https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...-and-donald-trump-live-in?mbid=social_twitter
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Yea, the Dotard flushes out these madmen & women showing them for what they are.
We've heard their absurdities, do we now have to witness atrocities as a result of their provocative language?
 
People talk about 'Islamics' being radicalized, while right before our eyes the 'right' is radicalizing. I expect worse trouble from them. There are more of them, they have a lot of power, and they want total power.

Example of 'before our eyes:' here's some of the names from the speaker's list at the recent CPAC conference: Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Sheriff David Clarke, Dana Loesch, Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, Nigel Farage, Michelle Malkin, Mark Levin, Eric Bolling, Judge Jeanine Pirro, and Sebastian Gorka.

http://cpac.conservative.org/cpac-speakers/
 
notaclue said:
Armed, radicalized and pretty much using the language of civil war. That is who Trump is empowering.

"Guns now are the symbol of a license to hate the other: the liberals and the media and the rest who are part of a “socialist wave.” Wayne LaPierre told the cpac audience, “You should be frightened. If they seize power, if these so-called European socialists take over the House and the Senate, and, God forbid, they get the White House again, our Americans freedoms could be lost and our country will be changed forever.”
...
What LaPierre seemed to be saying was that true Americans need a right to a lethal weapon in order to show that they can’t be intimidated by their political opponents. To an astonishing degree, his argument has become bald and brutal: you are the gun that you own." https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...-and-donald-trump-live-in?mbid=social_twitter
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That New Yorker piece is an excellent summary of where the 'debate' on gun control now is. Money quote, in my opinion: "...you can only meet people halfway when you are both living on the same planet."
 
There's a certain irony about people on a UK forum criticising the Americans right to bear arms. We should remember it was the British empire which caused the problem in the first place (yet again).
 
venton said:
There's a certain irony about people on a UK forum criticising the Americans right to bear arms. We should remember it was the British empire which caused the problem in the first place (yet again).
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So much for the idea that people are responsible for their own actions. :)

Go back further. Blame it on 'original sin'. :)

And TBH my impression is that many of the people who have posted in this thread are Americans.

As a mere Brit I can only say that viewed from here it seems like a case of "Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad." Mixed with "follow the money".

And I think it was pointed out a while ago that the "right to arm bears" stemmed from a feeling by the original States that they wanted to avoid a standing National army, so needed to ensure that individual malitias could be assembled. I can't tell if this was because they didn't want to be taxed to pay for a National army, or feared it would be used against them. But to me as Brit it reminds me of the middle ages here when the various Lords and the King made the peasants learn to use a longbow so they could be 'drafted' when needed to fight for their betters.

We got rid of that centuries ago. So it should be possible for the USA to do the same. All we can do is remain puzzled and sad at your problem. We had one particular 'school shooting' (Dunblain) and it prompted us to deal with this within a relatively short time period. That can't make it impossible. But it can reduce the chance of it happening.
 
I'm a brit, and would much rather the States were gun free. Just pointing out the irony. The second amendment is in the constitution which came about following independence from Britain. My understanding was that the right to bear arms was so that US citizens could not be subject to a draconian government again. We do often forget that the government is there to serve us. In the Uk right now this seems to have been forgotten, and the government bears over us rather than serves us. This often happens when power goes to politicians heads.
 
venton said:
My understanding was that the right to bear arms was so that US citizens could not be subject to a draconian government again.
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I think this is correct. The intention was that if a government turned rogue then the public would rise up in militias, seize power and call the miscreants to account. Meanwhile back in the real world do we imagine that a few good ol' boys, with MI-15s or not, could defeat the US Army? Now OK, the Vietcong did a pretty good job but to be fair that was an away game and the pitch was in poor condition.

We all know what the solution is, we all know that while senators are being funded by the NRA it will never happen. It'san American problem for Americans to solve. If they can tolerate a school shooting every few months, and it seems that they can, who are we to argue?
 
"Away game and pitch in poor condition!"
It's your fault I have tea on my MBP.

Draconian govt? Try watching the 13th Amendment, it's heartbreaking but enlightening.

Good to see market forces pushing business away from the NRA.
 
All countries are partly influenced by their history but just like children are also partly influenced by their upbringing/nurture but how they react to/absorb this nurture is very dependent on their nature. So history is not a get-out-of-jail-free card - it very much depends on the collective maturity of the citizenry.

In Ireland we had a similar revolt against the British & a subsequent civil war among ourselves because of the treaty with the Brits which allowed the annexation of Norther Ireland. IMO, It is only in the last couple of decades that the general attitude of anti-brit sentiment is disappearing & a more mature/balanced view emerging - it's has basically taken 100 years although we will still beat you in rugby at Twickenham on March 17th, ST Patricks day :)

What we didn't do was fall in love with weaponry & arm ourselves for fun - I believe most recognised what damage guns cause both physically & psychologically (a civil war teaches these lessons for normal people). There are many other countries who have a similar experience with britain & they similarly didn't adopt gun laws or gun ownership like the US.

Is the NRA not loosely part of the military/industrial complex & does this not tie in with the seemingly widely cherished view of US military supremacy by its citizens? Could the US be categorised as having bully mentality which stems from this military supremacy & this is one of the causes of such stupid, self-harm as is evidenced in their love of guns by ~ 50% of the population?
 
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