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Naim 202/200 vs Leben CS300 vs Audio Note OTO SE for Tannoy Turnberry

Pani

pfm Member
I currently use a simple Nait 5i with my Tannoy Turnberry SE speakers. My CDP is also a Naim CD5x + Flatcap2. I plan to upgrade my amp sometime soon. The default upgrade path for me is a 202/200 which I could get preowned for about GBP1600. But I am also looking at tube amps because Tannoys supposedly are something special with good tube amps. However, within my budget I can only look at a Leben CS300 or a Audio Note OTO SE. Has anyone tried such low powered tube amps with Tannoy ? I would like to get a general suggestion here.
 
At Scalford Hall AndrewR hooked up his home brew valve monoblocks at 8w a side and they drove my Turnberrys just great.

My own amp is 45wpc of pure class A valve power and I cannot think of anything better to drive them with but these amps are custom built and I was lucky to pick mine up s/h (there are only 5 in existence.)
 
45 watts of pure class A valve power is super. If I had an option like that then I wouldnt have started this thread at all. My situation is between 10 to 15 watts.
 
Thanks for reassuring. Any experiences with amplifiers in my original question ? Sometimes 10 watts of one amp is as good as 50 watts of the other, I am not a techie but we all have seen it happening.
 
I found the Leben 300 among one of the best tube amplifiers but really need to have small room or high efficiency speakers

Used with below 91-92 db easy speakers I would do a home dem if possible
 
To my ears, Tannoys actually prefer a decent level of drive..whatever the 'spec' suggests. I think Tannoy recommend at least 50 watts. I have used a Leben c600 on Tannoy Glenairs, and that was ok. The issue is perhaps having enough current to grip the bass.
Personally, I'd want at least 30 watts. But then I am puzzled by the choice of amps....to my ears they are each very different' If I liked Naim (I don't) I wouldn't want a Leben, and so on. Eight watts is too little in general, I use an 18 watt Audionote with genuine 93db speakers (Audionte E spe he..Audionote claim 98db but that is rubbish) and it is ok. But I wouldn't want less.
The belief that you can properly drive speakers with tiny amps is common on pfm; having owned such amps, and efficient speakers, I am not convinced.It is too much like driving a small car flat out..it might go fast but it will be straining pretty badly.
Or to put it another way, a good small amp driven hard will probably sound worse than a less fine amp driven more comfortably. At least, that's what my ears suggest to me.
 
The belief that you can properly drive speakers with tiny amps is common on pfm; having owned such amps, and efficient speakers, I am not convinced.It is too much like driving a small car flat out..it might go fast but it will be straining pretty badly.
Or to put it another way, a good small amp driven hard will probably sound worse than a less fine amp driven more comfortably. At least, that's what my ears suggest to me.

There is certainly something more complex going on, e.g. I've felt a 300B SET didn't have enough grip / headroom for my 15" Monitor Golds, yet a similarly powerful Leak Stereo 20 seems fine at any volume I'd want to use. I've also found a very noticeable difference between my Tannoys and my Klipsch Heresys despite the latter only being 1 db more efficient (96db vs. 95 IIRC), the latter just seem far easier and sound great with the tiniest of SETs, e.g. a 2 watt Decware.

As to the Turnburys Andrew's SET certainly showed no signs of giving up despite what I felt was a very loud volume level in room.
 
There is certainly something more complex going on, e.g. I've felt a 300B SET didn't have enough grip / headroom for my 15" Monitor Golds, yet a similarly powerful Leak Stereo 20 seems fine at any volume I'd want to use. I've also found a very noticeable difference between my Tannoys and my Klipsch Heresys despite the latter only being 1 db more efficient (96db vs. 95 IIRC), the latter just seem far easier and sound great with the tiniest of SETs, e.g. a 2 watt Decware.

As to the Turnburys Andrew's SET certainly showed no signs of giving up despite what I felt was a very loud volume level in room.

Hi Pani/Tony L, First off forgive the lack of paragraphs as I'm using an iPhone. I've heard a friends DIY Audio Supply Billie 300B based Mono's ( 8 w/pc ) driving a pair of Harbeth Compact-7ES-3's in a room all of 19' wide x 16' deep along the short wall and was surprised it played as loudly as it did in this room. Yet when this amp was used on my 86dB DeVore Fideltiy Gibbon 3's - it made it quite pleasant - but it also told me something that I needed to know - which sent me after a Woodham CR Developments Kalypso ( Phono - EL84 15 w/pc ) Integrated Amp and I couldn't be happier. The kicker is after all of 19 years of getting used to amps with EL34/KT77/6CA7 tubes ( hence my various usernames ) I've always been curious about hearing/owning an EL84 based integrated - after following Tony L's venture with his Leak Stereo 20, just drove me to pursue something of my own - and I'm glad I did. I don't so much feel it's a matter of current in so much as the quality of the Transformers in use, some iron ( Hashimoto ) are more then capable of playing speakers rated as low as 86dB - so one at 93 shouldn't pose a problem in my mind. But if it was my choice.........., I'd be the Leben if you're after a more modern sound with drive/directness - snap/kick and nimbleness - and the Audio Note if you're after a more refined - warmer - richer sounding tonality - what I refer to as that " old school " sound. As always I can only speak on what I've heard and consider it as " my truth ". Regards,Oscar
 
Kt77, even though my exposure to Audio Note is quite limited, I was always of the opinion that Audio Note amps are also very open, direct and rhythmic amps (UK style) !! Isnt it ?
 
Kt77, even though my exposure to Audio Note is quite limited, I was always of the opinion that Audio Note amps are also very open, direct and rhythmic amps (UK style) !! Isnt it ?

Hi Pani, Please keep in mind I'm in America - where many tube ( valve ) amps these days are trying to mimic solid state and solid state amps are becoming warmer like tubes or the older JFet amps of old. I'd have to say that Audio Note U.K. Puts me more in mind of what I've often heard through friends Shindo Labs or Wavac based systems - more organic in nature - somewhat more on the refined yet balanced side of the spectrum. To my ears they sound like tube amps are supposed to sound - inviting, calm, spacious and delicate. It's not a knock in so much as praise. I started out with tubes in 1989 with an Audio Innovations Series 500 which to my ears was much better sounding then anything on this side of the pond except older designs from Conrad-Johnson along with Quicksilver Audio. In other words amps from the likes of Audio Research Corporation or CAT never did it for me - not enough warmth or texture nor refinement for my senses. Just random thoughts coming out - try to overlook them. But AN - Kondo - Shindo Lab - Wavac and Don Garber's Fi based tube amps are what I'd call tubes done right. Where it's about the musicality above all else. Isn't that why many of us go to tubes/values?, because we're seeking a warmer - richer balance from our music?. Cheers, Oscar
 
Thank you for an interesting view Kt77. Do you like Leben :) ?

BTW, I forgot to add another amp that I am also considering, an ATC SIA-150. I suppose it is powerful yet refined.

But then I am puzzled by the choice of amps....to my ears they are each very different' If I liked Naim (I don't) I wouldn't want a Leben, and so on.

Pashkinn, I have to admit I like the rhythmic PRATy sound like of Naim and the current gen Naim is refined and full enough to give me a good sense of instrumental tone and body. However tubes are still tubes. They just do few things better. I like Leben because I found them to be neutral yet musical, snapy yet delicate, you know !! I like neutral all rounders (it could be tube or SS), that is why I am considering ATC amps also.
 
Thank you for an interesting view Kt77. Do you like Leben :) ?

BTW, I forgot to add another amp that I am also considering, an ATC SIA-150. I suppose it is powerful yet refined.



Pashkinn, I have to admit I like the rhythmic PRATy sound like of Naim and the current gen Naim is refined and full enough to give me a good sense of instrumental tone and body. However tubes are still tubes. They just do few things better. I like Leben because I found them to be neutral yet musical, snapy yet delicate, you know !! I like neutral all rounders (it could be tube or SS), that is why I am considering ATC amps also.

Pani, You're more then welcome. I first heard both Shindo Labs and Leben two years ago at Don Better Audio in Cleveland, Ohio. Two other guys from Michigan tagged along for the session. We listened to the Leben CS600 used with an Acoustic Plan PhonoMaster ( $3.500 ) with a WTA w/. Dynavector XXmk2 driving DeVore Gibbon 3XL's, and it was breathtaking - until he replaced it with the $22.000 or so worth of Shindo seperates - and we each started looking at the speakers - then one another and began laughing. We talked about what we heard all the way home - bottom line is the Leben has a more modern - slightly more detailed and balanced sound - whereas I told the guys what I heard from Shindo is a sound I recall from the early 80's through Conrad-Johnson PV-5/MV-50 tube gear. It has what I often call that " Old School Sound ", like the sounds I hear when the wife and I are watching movies from the 40's - great actors by the way, but some of those music scores were in fact beautifully balanced and you know why?, because they were using Western Electric based systems during the recording of said movies of that time. To my ears this is what tube owners are seeking about all else - a greater sense of having the music wash over your body/spirit/soul. Is it not?. Once again my rather long-winded take, just to respond " Yes " I do like Leben after realizing the difference between it and said Shindo Labs voicing methods. Regards,Oscar
 
Once again - I'm doing this from my iPhone, so please overlook the lack of paragraphs that a few guys have reminded me about on countless post. I'd much rather buy vinyl - tubes - cartridges then another MacBook at the time. First things first I'd say - some would say my priorities are in order chasing the ones above - I feel that they are. A computer can wait - just place the paragraphs where they belong and it's all good. Cheers, Oscar
 
Oh Pani, Another heads up before I turn in..........., here in the states the same distributor of both Leben and Shindo Labs has brought in another line that's killing and I mean killing a great deal of the domestic based tube amps - and these amps are in fact selling quite well by the way - if you aren't funny as some appear to be about products coming out of China?, the company is called LM Audio ( Line Magnetic ) and is looked upon as the poor man's Shindo. And after hearing it a guys home last month whom purchased his unheard - I've to agree............................, Johnathan at Tone Imports has a great ear for what he's introducing to the American tube ( valve ) lovers. Once again - if you aren't biased?, look this company up - their amps range between $1.650 upwards or $4.000 for a very nice 845 based Integrated, however they've a few more that exceeds that price, but this is where the the money is being made on the cheaper 3-4 Integrated's. Just in case you weren't up on them yet?. Cheers,Oscar ( Goodnight - day, whichever one it is?, where you're located?. ).(;/).z
 


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