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  #1  
Old 15-12-07, 09:55 AM
gregor gregor is offline
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TDL TRL2

the foam is perished at the bottom of the base,anyone know if i can use any old foam or is it a special type.
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  #2  
Old 15-12-07, 01:11 PM
DSJR DSJR is offline
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Surely you can get some open style foam and cut it to shape, as I suspect it was as much a decorative thing. Ask Wilmslow Audio.

I loved the RTL2 in its Mk1 form. It's easily tweaked too (better tweeter cap and slightly higher resistor to balance it). The Mk2 version was ruined 'cos it was balanced like the AE109 with a big step down on the tweeter to match the CD63 KI Sig CD and PM66 KI Sig amp (it can be corrected though).

Hope you can find what you need.
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  #3  
Old 18-12-07, 10:10 AM
gregor gregor is offline
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yes i was thinking that myself ,just wanted to make sure.thanks for replying.i am intringued re tweaking,i was thinking of upgrading to morel or peerless tweeters but i wouldn't know if i have mk 1's or 2's.i do like these speakers though and my 8000a really makes them sing.what value resistor would i use if i needed to.many thank's,gregor.
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  #4  
Old 18-12-07, 10:33 AM
DSJR DSJR is offline
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They're good as they are and don't require fancy tweeters or anything IMO. You'll have to re-veneer the box etc to warrant it.

The electrolytic tweeter cap (4.7uF I think) can be changed for a Polypropylene one which will increase the output further and the resistor (1.5 Ohm?) can be increased by half an Ohm - no more - to correct it. The designer suggested changing the capacitor value to 3.3 I think, but I didn't like the way the sound changed - the treble became sssspiteful...

These make wonderful, cheap floor standing speakers (well under a ton per pair) and we used Flatling speaker cable as well as the ubiquitous QED 79 strand variants (not silver anniversary please).
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  #5  
Old 02-05-08, 06:09 AM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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I too have a pair of RTL2's and Ive modded them a little.

I changed the internal wiring to QED Silver anniversary. (more detail and Bass weight) Then I took out the midbass drivers and filled the cavity behind the flange with butak. (Bass tightended up a little, mid got a tad cleaner) I then fitted Morel MDT 30s tweeters. (Loveley treble, lots of detail, ambience. Better imaging) The problem is that my system is a little bright so the combination of the Silver wire and Morels is a bit to much. I also lined ther top part of the enclosure with 'Deadsheet' (Bitumin+foam)

I plan to tone it down a little with some pure copper wire and upgrade the Tweeter Caps (Hovland Musicaps). Im also going to change the resistor to attenuate the tregble a little. Finally I plan to re-cover them with '1/8"Riga Borch Ply' to strenghten the cabinet and improve aesthetics.

One further experiment will be to cover the frame legs of the Midbass with Bitumin.
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  #6  
Old 02-05-08, 06:50 AM
DSJR DSJR is offline
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Hey, these were only cheap speakers so don't go too far with them....

These comments refer to the MARK 1 VERSION.........

I apologise for HATING QED Silver Anniversary with a passion. Even the right way round it sapped life and dynamic range and what was left is a tinny "HiFi" quality which is not pleasant. It sold by the thousands of drums to AV orientated shops who never really listened (same for a few audio shops too, who sild it 'cos What HiFi liked it)...

Get some reasonable copper cable, not too heavy a gauge and just get a polyprop cap for the tweeter - no need for a truly expensive one here as it'll almost certainly be a waste of money.

With the original VIFA tweeter, I added half an ohm or more to make up for the increased signal coming through an upgraded cap. I'd leave the cap value the same, as when the designer suggested reducing the value slightly to remove a slight bump at 2-3 KHz the top seemed to detach itself and wasn't so pleasant.

Adding a proper veneer to the cabs would definitely improve the rather shabby bubble vinyl finish of the original.

Finally, look out for some Studio 1 M's, as these take the RTL2 idea to a different level - in todays market, I'd suggest the Spendor S5e or better, S6e as a suitable upgrade (with Chord Rumour or Odyssey spealer cable).
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  #7  
Old 02-05-08, 08:07 AM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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I dont have the original cheap Vifa units. I have Morel's that cost nearly 100 a pair so Im certain they deserve better caps. I think Its justifiable to go for something like Hovlands for these Tweeters, we'll see. And Im sure they woulkd benefit, as would the overall sound.

I was thinking about upgrading the coils. Nothing ott, just some air cored, baked type units.

Last edited by mikesnowdon; 02-05-08 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #8  
Old 04-05-08, 03:29 AM
DSJR DSJR is offline
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I'm not criticising your tweeter choice in the slightest and of course the cheap electrolytic should be binned - even the original Vifas deserve better.. I was just advising caution regarding a speaker that cost 300 pr fifteen years ago and goes for 50 today...

The thing is, the bass/mid unit seems well behaved in that box and the designer was an expert at driver/crossover design. Shame the mark 2 versions, which had better finished cabinets, were voiced with the tweeter set 5db too low to match the then popular AE109's, which were used with screaming "KI Signature" style budget CD players and amps.

Good luck with your upgrades.
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  #9  
Old 04-05-08, 12:40 PM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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I get yuor point about it being a cheap speaker.

I'm just so happy with the results so far that top notch caps are warranted, IMHO. As it is the speakers sound so good, I'm quite suprised to be honest.

I found them on eBay as 'faulty' and paid 5.50! (loose badge on one grille causing a rattle!) All in all they have cost me about 100ish incuding the Tweeters. I think most would be quite impressed with the sound as-is, but with a few nice xover components and a stiffened cab (im covering them with 1/8" birc ply) I'll have a really nice speaker in both accoustics and aesthetics. I'm not gpoing to throw 100's at them but theyre worth a decent crossover. I'll post some pics here when its done.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-08, 04:11 PM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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Ordered some Janjzen Cross Caps today. I have some dimple foam also to experiment with.

Can anyone advise which resistors are best?
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  #11  
Old 07-05-08, 08:58 PM
smegger68 smegger68 is offline
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I had RTL3's for around 11 years; Vastly underrated basic design but deserving of better tweeters without a doubt. I fitted Audax units to mine with great results. BTW you can tell the mk1 from the mk2 easily - the mk2's have a bolt on plinth and arch topped reflex ports. the mk1's have no plinth and the ports are square.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-08, 03:40 PM
DSJR DSJR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smegger68 View Post
I had RTL3's for around 11 years; Vastly underrated basic design but deserving of better tweeters without a doubt. I fitted Audax units to mine with great results. BTW you can tell the mk1 from the mk2 easily - the mk2's have a bolt on plinth and arch topped reflex ports. the mk1's have no plinth and the ports are square.
There's something you can do to RTL3 mk1's to correct the mid dip and sort out the cruel impedance. There's a resistor across the bass/mid drivers in the crossover and I can't for the life of me remember what to do with it, either change the value or remove it... if it's 15 Ohms, change it to 25 Ohms or something similar, my brain's gone - sorry!...

...We had a problem with an Audiolab 8000P getting hot and bothered and it was this resistor pulling the mid down along with the impedance that was causing the problem - where's Clive Gibson (the designer) when you need him??????
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  #13  
Old 09-05-08, 01:44 AM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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RTL2 Tweeter section

Hi everyone.

I took a look at the tweeter section on the RTL2 crossover.

Resistor is 1.5ohm 5W

Cap is 6uF Electrolytic.

I've ordered new Caps as mentioned above:
http://www.audio-components.co.uk/st...CategoryID=105

2 x 5.6uF + 2 x 0.39uF Jantzen Crosscaps. The Cross Caps are'nt available in 6 uF so this was the closest match I could find. Can anyone tell me if this is ok, should I just piggy back the main cap or just leave out the 0.39 u
F?

I also ordered new resistors as advised above. Rather than going up by 0.5 I went for 1.8 ohm which is a tad higher. Will see how it sounds after experimenting with copper wiring.

I was tempted to go for these resistors, on the promise of a 'tube like' sound:http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/kiwame.html

Wasnt sure if the wattage was suitable for a crossover network. Can anyone advise here?

At a later date may go for these: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mills.html

Along with new coils. Imho, these speakers deserve a decent crossover, even with the standard Vifa HF. Looking around I think the jentzen caps are best in the 'value for money' stakes. jantzen also do some rather good Coils so rebuilding the network for this speaker should be do-able for ca. 50-60?

This will require a new board so hardwiring over a a peice of 5mm MDF would be a good option.

A new network would certainly bring a big difference to this speaker. As would aditional cabinet damping/bracing. The basic design is worthy of it IMOH.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-08, 01:46 AM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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RTL2 Tweeter section

Hi everyone.

I took a look at the tweeter section on the RTL2 crossover.

Resistor is 1.5ohm 5W

Cap is 6uF Electrolytic.

I've ordered new Caps as mentioned above:
http://www.audio-components.co.uk/st...CategoryID=105

2 x 5.6uF + 2 x 0.39uF Jantzen Crosscaps. The Cross Caps are'nt available in 6 uF so this was the closest match I could find. Can anyone tell me if this is ok, should I just piggy back the main cap or just leave out the 0.39 u
F?

I also ordered new resistors as advised above. Rather than going up by '0.5' I went for '1.8 ohm' which is a tad higher than the original.

I was tempted to go for these resistors, on the promise of a 'tube like' sound:http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/kiwame.html

Wasnt sure if the wattage was suitable for a crossover network. Can anyone advise here?

At a later date may go for these if the above are not suitable: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mills.html

Imho, these speakers deserve a decent crossover, even with the standard Vifa HF. Looking around I think the jentzen caps are best in the 'value for money' stakes. jantzen also do some rather good Coils so rebuilding the networks for this speaker should be do-able for ca. 50-60?

This will require a new board so hardwiring over a a peice of 5mm MDF would be a good option.

A new network would certainly bring a big difference to this speaker. As would aditional cabinet damping/bracing. The basic design is worthy of it IMOH.
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  #15  
Old 12-05-08, 01:32 PM
mikesnowdon mikesnowdon is offline
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Finished my first speaker today! Will do the other tomorrow after work. Initial results are really good. Cant wait to get the other one done and hear them after a couple of days burn in. Will post again soon.

Report with link to pictures here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=107268
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