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Retromania

James

Lord of the Erg\o/s
Back in the day, I used to chase the holy grail of hifi-dom, as I'm sure many of you have done or are doing. That sometimes entailed spending money I didn't have to get further up the ladder to audio nirvana with the next newest or greatest piece of kit.

The first revelatory moment for me (and some visiting friends) was when we heard how much better a fully restored Pioneer C-21/M-22 combo sounded compared to the best Densen had to offer with the B-250/B-350 monos combo. That started a new journey for me that progressed to hunting for, and eventually landing, a pair of Yamaha NS-1000M. I was totally prepared to be disappointed (as I was when I heard a pair demoed at my last home, which had appalling acoustics), but I was more than pleasantly surprised. Since they took up residence, none of my Ergo designs have come back out to play. This is not a slight on my own creations - far from it - but the appeal of a retro-sounding system that I'm becoming rather attached to.

It reminds me so much about what attracted me to hifi in the first place. Vinyl records that I've collected since the late 70s are seeing the light of day again - especially since acquiring a much more disposable and less anxiety-inducing MM cartridge. In fact, since buying the cart earlier this week, I have not played a single CD. Instead, I have been comforted by, nay grooving to, music that is imbued with euphoric warmth, nostalgic memories and the occasional click/pop.

With well over 2,000 records in my collection, I dare say it will take me some time to get through them all. Time will tell if this is just a phase I'm going through, or if there is something more credible and enjoyable about a retro system.

I know I'm not alone thinking this way, but I wish I realised it much earlier.
 
I know I'm not alone thinking this way

I completely agree.

It seems we all think (or go through a phase of thinking) that what we want from our systems is "accuracy". I don't believe it exists. Does anyone really have a hi-fi that could truly make a listener believe that there is a string quartet in the living room there in front of them? Of course not! The best a system can do is to produce a facsimile of the sound of "real" music, and what we think is a quest for accuracy is in fact just a quest for the facsimile that appeals to us the most. That will of course differ a lot from listener to listener, but once you have found the set of compromises and shortcomings that pleases you most, you're there! The job is done and you just need to sit back and enjoy.
ML
 
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It can easily be argued my systems are as retro as it gets (Lockwood Tannoy studio rig/JR149s and a 1958 tube amp) but I’m listening to more CDs and SACDs than ever before due to the amazing value and availability of these formats at present. I actually very seldom play vinyl these days as I’ve always got such a big stack of new digital to get through!
 
Digital ain't retro, Tony. I'm going to see how long I can go without spinning a CD.
 
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Digital ain't retro, Tony. I'm going to see how low I can go without spinning a CD.

It isn’t, but it is the one real game-changer that has occured since the release of stereo in 1958. It is amazing how well it slots into systems of that era!
 
Im definitely in the same process .... i play more digi than vinyl (lp12 & 401) but do play cassettes a lot on old Naks

However on my Williamson 5/20 valves or even 110/32.5 or 42 & on my esl 57's or briefly these tweeterless 1955 Tannoys (since Lockwoods returned my driver)

... i find that squirting a modern clean digi signal in that is of course free of rumble, surface noise and tapehiss and humming old circuitry noise etc etc. so relieves older drivers and valve amps of older generally poorer S/N situations -
that retro kit can really get on with the biz, this either on cd,ipod etc

i spose Im channeling the old Linn adage of GIGO.... but subjectively I find the technical clarity and occasional weirdness of digital to my ears ( say early remasters of Jimi Hendrix) is almost made an analog experience by valves in particular ( i only know older valve kit) ...

this means i can enjoy cd much more than when playing through some modern kit alone as for me its closer to the refinment of vinyl into esl's etc from a 401 etc.


with perchance some amber nectar included!
 
James I won't spend more than £200 on a cart, as you said takes away the spontaneity and joy of playing records. I also wonder whether old jap crap is as good as European 'high end', they certainly had the power to invest in r&d and of course access to hardware. Many of the smaller high end brands might even struggle to offer a remote control!
 
James I won't spend more than £200 on a cart, as you said takes away the spontaneity and joy of playing records. I also wonder whether old jap crap is as good as European 'high end', they certainly had the power to invest in r&d and of course access to hardware. Many of the smaller high end brands might even struggle to offer a remote control!
The Jap-crap notion was nothing more than brand-snobbery in my experience. I used to have a Pioneer SA-9800, which was sneered by those with 'proper' Brit-fi kit. You don't have to look too hard to see how much they command at resale these days. I still regret having to pony up extra cash to trade mine in on a Musical Fidelity A-100, which died on me three years later.

I'm no electronics guru, but I understand the better Japanese kit were designed with very sound principles and clever engineering. You only have to look at the Pioneer M-22 to marvel the ingenuity of its form-follow-function ethos. I'd dearly love to land a Pioneer PLC-590 TT to go with my vintage amps. I'm sure it'll give my Linn a run for its money.

For now, I'm content to pursue the path of sufficiency that a MM cart gives me. I've yet to fault the Ortofon 2M Bronze in any significant way. So far, I'm not missing CD playback.
 
The Jap-crap notion was nothing more than brand-snobbery in my experience.

I think we have to be a little careful that we don't rewrite history here. Back in the mid to late 70's, the market place was flooded with Japanese stuff and not all of it was good. Small British manufacturers struggled to get a look in, but I do agree, that partly to do with the H-Fi press, some good Japanese equipment got unfairly overlooked at the time.
 
I recall Sony kit being particularly good, if expensive.
I bought a Sony TA1010 amp. from our local ( independent ) Hi-Fi shop and was impressed
with its quality of build.
Stupidly sold it later to buy a Rotel with ‘trendy’ slider controls.
I often wonder how the Sony would have performed with my
Harbeth P3-ESRs...
 
I recall Sony kit being particularly good, if expensive.
I bought a Sony TA1010 amp. from our local ( independent ) Hi-Fi shop and was impressed
with its quality of build.
Stupidly sold it later to buy a Rotel with ‘trendy’ slider controls.
I often wonder how the Sony would have performed with my
Harbeth P3-ESRs...

Some of the late 70's Sonys look to be very good, I still want to hear a TA-N86/88 and the matching preamps, and If I had the money, the matching active crossover network ;)
 
I recall Sony kit being particularly good, if expensive.
Most of the decent Japanese brands at the higher end of their ranges were expensive and rather good. In my youth, before discovering Brit-fi, I used to hang out in shops selling Pioneer, Yamaha, JVC, Technics and Sansui kit. I'm now mainly a Pioneer and Yamaha nutter these days, and would dearly love to acquire a prime example of the Yamaha C-1/B-1 amplifiers (super rare in fine working/cosmetic condition and expensive to boot) or a Pioneer D-23 active crossover with another pair of M-22 power amplifiers.
 
Personally I don't think of stuff being vintage if it uses circuitry and techniques that would still be used today. So I don't really think of eg a Quad 405 being vintage as it's pretty much the same as a new 306 internally, even though it could be 40+ years old. A 303 from a couple years earlier then yes as it is capacitor coupled and uses quasi complementary output stage, typical of late 60's design.
 
What is your definition of retro? Cut-off date?
For me, these are roughly the ages of hi-fi.

2010 > Now: Contemporary
2000 > 2009: Modern
1990 > 1999: Classic
1980 > 1989: Retro
1970 > 1979: Vintage
1960 > 1969: Antique
Before 1960: Relic

Retro is 19" wide, solid-state, analogue, remote-free, fully discrete circuitry and not CE-marked.
 


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