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Alienated by price inflation for new hifi.

alanbeeb

alanbeeb

pfm Member
I'm looking at the thread discussing Magico's new Entry level speakers. £8k. wow.

Is it just me that thinks the price to value ratio is being stretched to stupid levels? Can't be healthy in the long term as manufacturers are pursuing a very small and dwindling demographic of the super-rich and the ever reducing numbers of middle class who actually have any disposable income. Got to be a declining market?

Just as an example: in 2010 I demo'd a pair of ATC SCM40 speakers which then retailed at £2000. I've always kind of hankered after them ever since. But the retail price for them now is £3750! That is way above inflationary growth - using a calculator one can see that £2k in 2010 would be c. £2.5k now.

Similarly, my Benz Glider cartridge cost £560 in 2009, now I am thinking of replacing it but a new one is almost £900! Regular inflation should make that £690.

What's going on?

I don't think this is the same in other luxury sectors - cars have not gone up in price by nearly as much, in fact in real terms luxury cars seem to have reduced in price in last 15-20 years. E.G. a Golf GTi in 1999 cost c. £18.5k, in todays terms that is £30.7k, while the RRP of a new Golf GTI now is £28k.
 
'Lifestyle' guff has definitely gone nuts. Bicycles used to be a cheap way of travelling. There is definitely a lot of collusion [often under BS regulations]. I was always amused that the Maruti [Suzuki Alto] was never sold in the UK. There are no cheap small UK cars. Where are the microvans?, the Ape50? Presumably our tax fiddles for business mean a never ending supply of near new cars, just adding to the costs we all pay for business and meaning our pot holes remain unfilled.
 
We live in a huge global marketplace. Manufacturers at the high end have no interest in volume sales. They basically use a formula to come up with a price as high as they can get away with. Linn have been doing it since the early days of the LP12 and they're still doing it.
 
I agree with all posts so far but we are only four posts in! I remember hankering after Naim gear from the early 80's and watching the price rises each year which at the time seemed way out of line with inflation. It took my until the 90's to discover the joys of 2nd hand Hi-Fi and Naim became a possibility at last.
 
With anything imported one obviously has to factor in the 20% or so Brexit currency collapse. This really impacts US and Japanese kit but will also increase the component cost of local kit. The “benefit” is collectable vintage UK kit has jumped by about that much as from the viewpoint of far-eastern buyers their currency now buys so many more Brexit £, so they are still paying what they feel a 301, Leak, LS3/5A or whatever is worth.
 
alanbeeb said:
...Just as an example: in 2010 I demo'd a pair of ATC SCM40 speakers which then retailed at £2000. I've always kind of hankered after them ever since. But the retail price for them now is £3750! That is way above inflationary growth - using a calculator one can see that £2k in 2010 would be c. £2.5k now.

Similarly, my Benz Glider cartridge cost £560 in 2009, now I am thinking of replacing it but a new one is almost £900! Regular inflation should make that £690.

What's going on?
Click to expand...

I had the same surprise last month when I started surfing again HiFi forums and shop sites. I managed not to make a change in my system for the last seven years and like you I had demo'd the SCM40's in 2010. Their price here was about 2200 euros, I saw now they cost 4400 euros and of course they are way out of my budget. Not just the 40's but all ATC speakers since I don't want to buy an ATC without the mid dome. I wasn't expecting to stay the same, I know everything goes up every year but the increase is huge and as you said it's everything. I checked Creek, they were supposed to be a budget company, not anymore. I can't believe how the small Harbeth speaker costs almost 2000 euros!!!

I can't see myself buying anything new again unless it's something minor. It's not only that I don't like it but I also can't afford these prices.
 
The fundamental reason is that companies like Linn don't want to grow beyond a certain size as it becomes difficult to manage.

So profits are constrained by their volume of production.

Once demand for their products is completely satisfied they put up prices to manage that demand and maximise profits.

At this point in an industry that is more main stream, a large organisation would step in with a cheaper version of the product.

But high end HIFI is clearly a niche industry where the small manufacturer can still have it their own way.
 
demotivated said:
'Lifestyle' guff has definitely gone nuts. Bicycles used to be a cheap way of travelling. There is definitely a lot of collusion [often under BS regulations]. I was always amused that the Maruti [Suzuki Alto] was never sold in the UK. There are no cheap small UK cars. Where are the microvans?, the Ape50? Presumably our tax fiddles for business mean a never ending supply of near new cars, just adding to the costs we all pay for business and meaning our pot holes remain unfilled.
Click to expand...
Unless I’m mistaken, the Suzuki Alto was available in the UK, along with the Perodua range and Proton... we also have Dacia now which seem to be a cut above those but still very cheap.
 
The Suzuki Alto was available in the UK, official import. So too was the Kia Pride, Daewoo, Hyundai, etc. My Mum bought a brand new Ford Ka in 2004 for £5000. Cars have been cheap for a while. What you are picking out is lifestyle stuff. Look up the prices of Rolex watches against inflation. Guess what? Guess what again, every time they put the prices up the demand increases.

Some things that should be cheap aren't. Aixam in France make micro cars that can be driven without a licence in France, they sell a version here. It's crap, but not cheap. See also the Ape 50. It's no cheaper than a Dacia/Ford Ka/whatever and other than as a statement vehicle it is utterly useless in the UK.

Edit - just looked it up. Ape 50 from £4450. Isn't there a Dacia from about £5500? A car with 4 seats, a boot, and about a 1300cc engine and capable of about 85mph?
 
alanbeeb said:
I'm looking at the thread discussing Magico's new Entry level speakers. £8k. wow.
Click to expand...

I think my original point from the Magico thread was about the manufacturer deciding to go the other way with their pricing and make the speakers available to a wider range of people, their similar speakers are $30,000, so knocking off $20,000 for a simplified finished and engineering is a big saving.
If you look at something like a PMC Fact 12 which is £12,000 and made from MDF, and look at the Magico which is machined from Alloy and anodized at $10,000, i know which one has cost more to make.

Obviously the Magico's still aren't anywhere near cheap in the grand scheme of things, but if you know something about engineering and low scale specialist manufacture, i suppose they are going in the right direct compared to other manufacturers like Wilson.

Saying all that, if you look at something like the Event Opal which had a lot of engineer (similar in some ways to what Magico are doing) put into it and was active, the £2000 they were makes it look like a total bargain, which they were. I feel the reason why they no longer make them is because they weren't making any money on them!

But yes i get your general point, everything is going up by leaps and bounds, I think if i'd have sat on some of the Hifi i've owned in the past i'd be making a fair profit now selling it.
 
My current speakers (to be replaced shortly due to house move ) were approx $9k in 1999. Solidly built, 170lbs per side, concrete/poly mix baffle, well engineered and built etc. How much would it cost to get similar speakers today $30k - 50k? I can guarantee my salary has not trebled since the turn of the millenium.
 
Funny that they get a mention within four posts, I thought of Naim straight away when I saw the heading!! I’ve bought new Naim for over 20 years, not anymore, not even 2nd hand. There is a natural increase in prices over the years, and then there is greed. This is summed up by the new Uniti range, a price increase before launch, oh, and another within 6 months!! Never again will I have another Naim product in the house, not even when the Muso Qb was reduced to £499 in the Black Friday sales. Hands cleansed.
 
Get used to it, prices for goods increase as market size shrinks. Build your own and save thousands.
 
Nearly all of my kit is 2nd hand.
Up to 50% off main kit.Accessories up to 75%
New kit is way too expensive, some of it obscenely so.
 
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Bought new kit in February....TT, Cart, HR power supply and RCM. A reasonable price I thought though my lovely dealer refused to give me an itemised receipt! Fast forward 11 months and I've literally just had the HR delivered (and had to seriously adjust the speed!). I also have a full receipt, item packaging etc. having involved my credit card company, a section 75 claim and some stern words. Strangely the itemised receipt is for way more than I was originally quoted which gives the impression I got quite a discount.

Inflation sucks for sure but HiFi price hikes are the woe!
 
You can always haggle on new prices, I did with my last two new purchases, also choose the right time to buy. I always find the best time is during the summer holidays July/August dealers are quiet as most are spending and thinking of holidays. Late January and February also good buying time, it’s all about timing and haggling.
 
Should see and hear some of the stuff the chinese and smaller designers in europe are producing; stunning quality, can very much compete on high end sound quality without insane prices.

It's time to look elsewhere, as you've rightly pointed out OP, value is hard to find in the usual retail locations.
 
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