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Combining Different Power Supplies On Naim NAC 282

R

ryder

pfm Member
Some might have known about my previous experience with the Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap. I did an extensive comparison between the two power supplies on the NAC 282 and ended up preferring one. Now I have both connected to the NAC 282 and surprisingly the results are rather pleasing.

I'll try not to post too much gibberish.

Previous experience, the following comparisons were carried out:-

282/HCDR vs 282/Dual Teddycap one output connected
282/HCDR vs 282/Dual Teddycap both outputs connected

In both configurations the 282/HCDR was preferred.

Just recently, I ran 282/HCDR + Dual Teddycap.

In comparison between 282/HCDR and 282/HCDR+Teddycap:-

*I first used the standard Teddy white cable to connect the Dual Teddycap to the NAC 282 but it didn't sound good, so I switched to the standard Naim cable instead. The standard Naim cable sounds better with the Teddycap and has stayed with the system.

Result
282/HCDR+Teddycap tightens up the mid/upper bass. There was slight smearing with details in the mid and upper bass with the 282/HCDR and the 282/HCDR+Teddycap cleans up the smearing. The notes are more defined and easier to follow. Basically a cleaner sound. There is slightly more detail with the 282/HCDR+Teddycap and some of the details become more pronounced.

There is an overall "softening" of the sound (which I find a trait of the Teddy gear), making the overall presentation more organic and human. An added refinement as some might call it. This time, the softening doesn't sound too dull as the drive in music is still present. Perhaps the combination of the HCDR and Dual Teddycap has managed to give the best of both worlds.

WIth the 282/HCDR, some of my less-than-stellar recordings (piano based) such as Hiromi often sound a bit like mud (I know i am exaggerating) as the notes of the piano are slightly smeared. Everything snaps into focus now. The notes of the piano and upper bass sound clearer and more defined with the 282/HCDR+Teddycap.

In summary, I now find the 282/HCDR+Dual Teddycap to be a slightly more balanced and superior setup than the 282/HCDR. If anyone has some old or different power supplies hiding in the closet, it might be worthwhile to give it a go on the NAC 282 even though there is already one powering it.
 
As I understand it, adding a second supply to the 282 means that one powers each channel. In this case it would mean that the two channels will sound different from each other and the sound will be unbalanced. That’s why when you have two hicaps they need to be well matched.
 
Yes, that used to be my understanding as well, to have both Hicaps evenly matched and of the same type. However, on another thread here titled "Upgrade found hiding in cupboard Shock!" by Minio, MJS of Witch Hat audio has suggested otherwise, which is peculiar considering that the information is contradictory to Richard Dane's advice on the Naim forum.
 
Well, you learn something every day. Like you; I always thought they powered the two channels separately. I wonder if a supercap would be better than a Hicap and the Teddy.
 
The more I listen to this setup, the more I'm appreciating its abilities. I'm beginning to think that the type of power supply and configuration (1 or 2 outputs connected) are really crucial and important in shaping the sound. Who would expect a mongrel of this setup to take things up a notch.

I am convinced a Supercap would be the way forward if one is looking for a significant and positive transformation. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be going there as the 282 is the end piece for me, and the Supercap will just thwart that plan.
 
ryder said:
Yes, that used to be my understanding as well, to have both Hicaps evenly matched and of the same type. However, on another thread here titled "Upgrade found hiding in cupboard Shock!" by Minio, MJS of Witch Hat audio has suggested otherwise, which is peculiar considering that the information is contradictory to Richard Dane's advice on the Naim forum.
Click to expand...

There are a few misconceptions around on the Naim forum that aren't corrected by Naim. This is one of them.

As someone who has wired NAC82s, tested NAC82s, wrote the original board test program for NAC82s and serviced them I can truthfully say they're not wired Left and Right between the two hicaps. My own R&D in coming up with the Superlink confirmed this.

Another misconception that Naim don't correct is that Hicaps and Supercaps used different grades of regulators. They didn't. The LM317s inside at the time were all tested by hand for noise rejection, voltage regulation tolerance and low frequency jumping. Again this was all done by hand in the test department - usually by drawing short straws ;)
 
So that’s the case with the 82 how about the 282?
I get the impression (from the owner’s) it’s a completely different box. I have a buddy who had his CB HICAP Dr’ed and he has a new HiCap dr. He tells me the the new DR HiCap sounds better than the CB one. I’m like “never ever mate”
 
I briefly swapped the Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap between the outputs of the NAC 282 and found a difference between the two configurations. If there is anyone who is using two different power supplies on the NAC 282, it is surely worthwhile to swap the power supplies to see which presentation you prefer. I wouldn't want to say which is a better sounding unit, but in my view the better power supply should go to the "Upgrade 1 or Link 1 socket" as shown in the diagram below.

NAC_282_Connections.jpg
 
I am surprised that you found the one hcdr to better the dual teddycap with the two supplies.

I wonder if the dtc is actually two separate supplies in the one box?
 
ryder said:
I briefly swapped the Hicap DR and Dual Teddycap between the outputs of the NAC 282 and found a difference between the two configurations. If there is anyone who is using two different power supplies on the NAC 282, it is surely worthwhile to swap the power supplies to see which presentation you prefer. I wouldn't want to say which is a better sounding unit, but in my view the better power supply should go to the "Upgrade 1 or Link 1 socket" as shown in the diagram below.

NAC_282_Connections.jpg
Click to expand...

Interesting as I have a 152xs which seem to have similar psu options or not ?

Currently running it powered by FC2xs but have a hicap in another setup, could be fun to mix and match, my CD5x are also FC2 powered, so many options
 
MJS said:
There are a few misconceptions around on the Naim forum that aren't corrected by Naim. This is one of them.

As someone who has wired NAC82s, tested NAC82s, wrote the original board test program for NAC82s and serviced them I can truthfully say they're not wired Left and Right between the two hicaps. My own R&D in coming up with the Superlink confirmed this.

Another misconception that Naim don't correct is that Hicaps and Supercaps used different grades of regulators. They didn't. The LM317s inside at the time were all tested by hand for noise rejection, voltage regulation tolerance and low frequency jumping. Again this was all done by hand in the test department - usually by drawing short straws ;)
Click to expand...

Well explained Mark and this matches exactly, my knowledge of the circuits.

I doubt though that the Naim crowd would believe the evidence presented
as urban myth tends to rule the roost
 
Myth number 2 in this thread could be ryder's suggestion that the better psu will pass the audio through to the power amp better.

Surely a hicap only has plain old straps between the two sockets to achieve this?
 
ryder said:

Result
282/HCDR+Teddycap tightens up the mid/upper bass. There was slight smearing with details in the mid and upper bass with the 282/HCDR and the 282/HCDR+Teddycap cleans up the smearing. The notes are more defined and easier to follow. Basically a cleaner sound. There is slightly more detail with the 282/HCDR+Teddycap and some of the details become more pronounced.

There is an overall "softening" of the sound (which I find a trait of the Teddy gear), making the overall presentation more organic and human. An added refinement as some might call it. This time, the softening doesn't sound too dull as the drive in music is still present. Perhaps the combination of the HCDR and Dual Teddycap has managed to give the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...

When I tried a Teddyreg I found the sound rather bland, very detailed and clean but lacking dynamics and excitement.
The Teddyreg has ultra low noise across a very wide frequency range but hgh ouput impedance (poor load regulation).

I expect the HCDR uses a feedback regulator with much lower o/p impedance than the Teddyreg, but probably higher noise (or more variation in noise depending on the frequency), IME this results in a more dynamic and exciting sound. Lower impedance regs pull more peaky currents from the supply and therefore common impedance coupling can become more of an issue (soemthing that Naim take a lot of pains to minimise).

It's all a compromise and logically shouldn't make any difference to the sound since theses supplies are feeding (usually) a 27R + 47uF local filter that actually supplied the audio circuits.

I suspect you have hit on a method of blending the benefits of the two supplies... and here I conpletely agree with Witchhat and Les - the gain stage and the TA filter can have separate supplies, not each channel. A well respected audio designer once told me that designing audio is like cooking and you need to blend the right ingredients and avoid too much of one flavour. Of course there are people who put a ton of salt on thier meal before they've even tasted it! :)
 
MrPinkEyes said:
So that’s the case with the 82 how about the 282?
I get the impression (from the owner’s) it’s a completely different box. I have a buddy who had his CB HICAP Dr’ed and he has a new HiCap dr. He tells me the the new DR HiCap sounds better than the CB one. I’m like “never ever mate”
Click to expand...

I don’t believe a CB, or Olive, Hicap can be DRed. That’s very likely why they sound different.
 
LesW said:
Well explained Mark and this matches exactly, my knowledge of the circuits.

I doubt though that the Naim crowd would believe the evidence presented
as urban myth tends to rule the roost
Click to expand...

As a self confessed Naim sheep, there seems no reason to disbelieve what you two are saying. It’s odd, though, that Naim are happy to let the myth continue. Ah well.
 
I think that is because this topic brings non Naim power supplies into discussion.

They don't go down that road!
 
And another thing...

Naim won't DR a non-black Hicap. Odd considering all the Hicaps have been identical internally since the early 1980s.

Well we've got something in the pipeline that makes a DR Hicap sound pretty dull and boring. It's a regulator and wiring change that take it to a new level.
 
MJS said:
And another thing...

Naim won't DR a non-black Hicap. Odd considering all the Hicaps have been identical internally since the early 1980s.

Well we've got something in the pipeline that makes a DR Hicap sound pretty dull and boring. It's a regulator and wiring change that take it to a new level.
Click to expand...

Yeah man I here they won’t do it in the UK. But down under is no problem. Probably the coolest little hicap to ever grace the face of the earth. He calls it his wee buddy, had it from new and it’s keeping up with the big boys.
Not that I’m a DR fan but he loves it.
 
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