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Another Kii THREE thread.

Ayya Khema said:
geithain was the first as far as i know to offer active cardioid pro speakers. kii tgree are not revolutionary in any way id agree, but the kii and geithain and the dutchanddutch are the only pro speakers that offer cardioid response. in that way merlin, those 3 companies are not like any other other pro speakers.nobody else offer cardioid response
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D&B have been offering them for a while now (check out the Cardioid subs like the D4) whilst JBL started Beam Shaping in the 1990's and offer a range of cardioid PA kit and subs. I'm not even convinced it's overly desirable in a domestic loudspeaker. I'd just buy big horn speakers with big bass units, enjoy many of the same benefits and enjoy. There again, I'm not a fan of small speakers distorting trying to emulate something bigger. Each to their own of course.
 
merlin said:
D&B have been offering them for a while now (check out the Cardioid subs like the D4) whilst JBL started Beam Shaping in the 1990's and offer a range of cardioid PA kit and subs. I'm not even convinced it's overly desirable in a domestic loudspeaker. I'd just buy big horn speakers with big bass units, enjoy many of the same benefits and enjoy. There again, I'm not a fan of small speakers distorting trying to emulate something bigger. Each to their own of course.
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The cardioid response brings a significant improvement , hearing more direct and less reflected sound allows you to hear more clearly into the music, extended and in the case of the 8Cs really punchy bass down to 20Hz.
It is immediately and completely obvious even when compared to well regarded traditional designs.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
The cardioid response brings a significant improvement , hearing more direct and less reflected sound allows you to hear more clearly into the music, extended and in the case of the 8Cs really punchy bass down to 20Hz.
It is immediately and completely obvious even when compared to well regarded traditional designs.
Keith
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What? From an 8" drive unit Keith? Really?

From what I see these Kii's are only offering the cardioid response from 200hz upwards. I'm not aware of any real problems that haven't already been addressed by positioning and wave guides above there but I'm sure they are distinctive sounding. Don't think I'll be dumping the Gerbils just yet though :)

The Megs should be fun though.
 
I’ve heard the Kii’s, ATC 40’s, 50’s, 100’s (etc), Grimm’s, horns - most stuff (not the Dutch&Dutch yet) and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. None of them have been ‘game changing’ or redifined my expectations. I was really surprised how good the Grimm’s were though - unfortunately they appear to be last months flavour....
 
Purité Audio said:
The Dutch & Dutch 8Cs have three 8” drivers , two on the rear.
http://dutchdutch.com/8c

Keith
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Indeed Keith, but only the two at the rear are working below 100hz aren't they? You were claiming 20hz. I was surprised given that an 8" woofer is roughly 200 sq.cm, a 10" is 350 sq.cm, a 12" is 550 sq.cm and a 15" is 850 sq.cm. So the 2 x 8" are roughly the size of 1 x 10" and whilst they will have better dispersion than the larger driver, even a 10" won't get near to producing low distortion bass in the bottom octave at audible levels. You really need 2 x 15" or an 18" for that IME.
 
I don’t know, is he no longer a Grimm agent? What really links all these ‘new technology’ speakers is that by the time the venture capitalists and distributors have had their cut they aren’t actually terribly good value for money. They aren’t shockingly bad like some of the super high end but they are expensive relative to the ‘convenience’ market they are aimed at.
 
YNWOAN said:
I’ve heard the Kii’s, ATC 40’s, 50’s, 100’s (etc), Grimm’s, horns - most stuff (not the Dutch&Dutch yet) and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. None of them have been ‘game changing’ or redifined my expectations. I was really surprised how good the Grimm’s were though - unfortunately they appear to be last months flavour....
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Where did you hear the Grimm LS1’s ?
They are nice speakers, expensive though, the Kiis and Dutch&Dutch are a development of that principle , indeed the Kii Three design was I believe initially offered to Grimm.
@ Mike yes 20Hz see ‘ Kii Killers’ here,
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/single-post/2017/07/24/DutchDutch-8C-Kii-THREE-killer
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
I am going to try the 944k and the 901k.
Probably 944 first.
Keith
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The 903K are very much worth hearing and although they are made for broadcast vans, their size and design are probably the most acceptable for a home listening audience. I think they are about the same dimensions as the 8C and Kii3 also so it would be a good comparison.
 
I will talk to the importer I know he has the 944 and the 901’s are usually on long term loan at KMR, which is where I heard them.
Just to be clear the 8Cs aren’t ‘convenience ‘ loudspeakers they are cutting edge monitors just as the Yamaha’s/ATCs would have been back in the 70’s.
Keith
 
YNWOAN said:
I’ve heard the Kii’s, ATC 40’s, 50’s, 100’s (etc), Grimm’s, horns - most stuff (not the Dutch&Dutch yet) and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. None of them have been ‘game changing’ or redifined my expectations. I was really surprised how good the Grimm’s were though - unfortunately they appear to be last months flavour....
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Totally agree except for the Grimm bit (I heard Grimm at a hif show and they didn't impress, but as it was a hifi show the jury must remain out).
 
Yes you have to be very careful forming opinions about speakers in unfamiliar rooms, I remember hearing yours at Scalford.
Keith
 
merlin said:
Indeed Keith, but only the two at the rear are working below 100hz aren't they? You were claiming 20hz. I was surprised given that an 8" woofer is roughly 200 sq.cm, a 10" is 350 sq.cm, a 12" is 550 sq.cm and a 15" is 850 sq.cm. So the 2 x 8" are roughly the size of 1 x 10" and whilst they will have better dispersion than the larger driver, even a 10" won't get near to producing low distortion bass in the bottom octave at audible levels. You really need 2 x 15" or an 18" for that IME.
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i went from jbl lsr32 to p3esr. went from 12 inch woofers to 5". i find the p3esr actually giving even better bass then the big jbl. yes better bass, more intelligible and precise and dast. of course my graham give even better bass then the p3.
i dunno, i also had big 15inch tannoy. excellent bass but my graham do just as well tbh

its all very context relevant
i listen at my listening position at about 75db with prob 10db peaks
at those level even a 5 inch do not distort.
u are making generalisation. hifi is contextual
a 8 inch woofer is plenty for my main system and my room. no distortion at all the levels i listen

do you know how loud do a 8 inch distorts? around 95db. in midfield to me 85 db is too loud.
so making generalist claims that you need a 15 inch is truly incomplete. but anyways your really into your jbl and i dont blame you.
 
Purité Audio said:
Yes you have to be very careful forming opinions about speakers in unfamiliar rooms, I remember hearing yours at Scalford.
Keith
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Me too. It was the best system I've ever heard at Scalford. Did you request any music you know when you wandered in to the room? Or did you just indulge in an immediate and vacuous judgement, without context or effort.
 
If I remember correctly there was a diagram on the rear wall which explained how the speakers wouldn’t excite room modes , but unfortunately that wasn’t the case.
Don’t remember much else to be honest.
Keith
 
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