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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

It's easy to over interpret posts though. Post 8519 is a good example. There's a narrative on the left that says, if you're silent, you're complicit (or something like that), but it's very hard within the context of a Hi-Fi forum thread on the ME to establish whether that is true or not. I realise the conflict is a very emotional topic for some though.
And I'm not the only one to call out your disingenuous clickbait bollocks, all dressed up in a patronising veneer of seemingly calm and reasonable language. You're not the only one on this thread that operates this way. . .
I would think that all PFM posters on this thread are concerned about the civilian deaths and suffering in Gaza, unless clear evidence to the contrary is presented of course.
This being a prime example of the way you tend to operate. That you've seen fit to spin this particular thead for your amusement is a shame. Maybe this is because you realise the conflict is a very emotional topic for some, but not for you. . .

John
 
Part of the problem imo is that even if i were in a Palestinian hospital under attack i'd pick up the nearest weapon to delay the inevitable.

My OH would do the same, every attack creates a cascade of Hamas recruits.
Of course. The idea that getting rid of Hamas will achieve peace is delusional. Our leader perpetuate this delusion, but they all know, because they have an entire civil service telling them, that peace is not the objective.

If only we had politicians who didn’t lie to us for their own political ends?
 
And I'm not the only one to call out your disingenuous clickbait bollocks, all dressed up in a patronising veneer of seemingly calm and reasonable language. You're not the only one on this thread that operates this way. . .

This being a prime example of the way you tend to operate. That you've seen fit to spin this particular thead for your amusement is a shame. Maybe this is because you realise the conflict is a very emotional topic for some, but not for you. . .

John

Bog-standard racism, from someone aligned with the Labour right. Black lives simply don't matter to these people.
 
It's easy to over interpret posts though. Post 8519 is a good example. There's a narrative on the left that says, if you're silent, you're complicit (or something like that), but it's very hard within the context of a Hi-Fi forum thread on the ME to establish whether that is true or not. I realise the conflict is a very emotional topic for some though.
If someone repeatedly post the same IDF/zionist propaganda what's left to over interpret?
 

New mass grave discovered in front of al-Shifa Hospital: Gaza media office

Health workers have recovered at least 30 bodies buried in front of al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, said Salama Maarouf, head of the Strip’s Government Media Office.
Maarouf accused the Israeli army of deliberately hiding the bodies by burying them under waste and sand.
The official said 12 of the bodies were identified and those buried included women and wounded people.
“Some were handcuffed and stripped of their clothes, indicating that they had been executed in cold blood,” Maarouf charged.
This is the second mass grave discovered this week in front of the hospital. The facility turned into a graveyard during a two-week siege by the Israeli army.


 
If someone repeatedly post the same IDF/zionist propaganda what's left to over interpret?
If said poster is as 'bad' as many are interpreting, then he would get banned. It's very easy to get banned on this thread.

The Palestinian tribe don't post in support of Isreal/Isrealis. The Isreal tribe don't post in support of the Palestine/Palestinians. Both sides post propaganda. Both sides will deny it. Both sides are entrenched. This thread is a microcosm of the conflict.
 

JVL Introduction​


We’ve carried many stories about the end of liberal Zionism in the past. But post-October 7th, there is an rapidly increasing polarisation among Jews in the United States, echoed throughout Jewish communities elsewhere. Quite simply, the liberal centre is fragmenting in ways it hasn’t before.
Mitchell Plitnick writing in Mondoweiss is clear that J Street, long presenting itself as the respectable face of the liberal Jewish world, is drifting to the right. It is “Pro-Israel, Pro-Peace” but strictly in that order. Since October 7th it has prioritised Israel’s Jewish ethnocracy and its military hegemony above all else.
It’s no longer, says Plitnick, a question of one state or two. Whatever the form, the path to any decent future has to be democratic:
It will be about whether Palestinians will have equal rights in every way—including the right of return and the right to ensure their own security, just like Israelis. And that means the question for American [and British and other] Jews will ultimately come down to whether we want to continue to insist on an ethnocratic formulation featuring a Jewish state, or whether we will help Israel to abandon the fiction that it can be an ethnocratic and democratic state at the same time. It cannot.
RK

 
If said poster is as 'bad' as many are interpreting, then he would get banned. It's very easy to get banned on this thread.

The Palestinian tribe don't post in support of Isreal/Isrealis. The Isreal tribe don't post in support of the Palestine/Palestinians. Both sides post propaganda. Both sides will deny it. Both sides are entrenched. This thread is a microcosm of the conflict.
Are you honestly suggesting the devastation in Gaza is propaganda? Is the civilian death toll propaganda? Are the attacks on Ambulances, press and aid workers propaganda? Is the use of AI targeting propaganda? Is the expansion of settlements propaganda? Are the countless ignored UN resolutions propaganda? Don't be an apologist for mass murder.
 
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If said poster is as 'bad' as many are interpreting, then he would get banned. It's very easy to get banned on this thread.

The Palestinian tribe don't post in support of Isreal/Isrealis. The Isreal tribe don't post in support of the Palestine/Palestinians. Both sides post propaganda. Both sides will deny it. Both sides are entrenched. This thread is a microcosm of the conflict.
You obviously have no interest in this topic and retreat into a centrist dad assessment of various headlines. But you really don't have to dig very far beyond the headlines to see a very clear moral divide.
 
Are you honestly suggesting the devastation in Gaza is propaganda? Is the civilian death toll propaganda? Are the attacks on Ambulances, press and aid workers propaganda? Is the use of AI targeting propaganda? Are the expansion of settlers propaganda? Are the countless ignored UN resolutions propaganda? Don't be a apologist for mass murder.

I rest my case.

As for the thread topic, peace and then 2 States. At lot of Israelis would agree.
 

JVL Introduction​


We’ve carried many stories about the end of liberal Zionism in the past. But post-October 7th, there is an rapidly increasing polarisation among Jews in the United States, echoed throughout Jewish communities elsewhere. Quite simply, the liberal centre is fragmenting in ways it hasn’t before.
Mitchell Plitnick writing in Mondoweiss is clear that J Street, long presenting itself as the respectable face of the liberal Jewish world, is drifting to the right. It is “Pro-Israel, Pro-Peace” but strictly in that order. Since October 7th it has prioritised Israel’s Jewish ethnocracy and its military hegemony above all else.
It’s no longer, says Plitnick, a question of one state or two. Whatever the form, the path to any decent future has to be democratic:
It will be about whether Palestinians will have equal rights in every way—including the right of return and the right to ensure their own security, just like Israelis. And that means the question for American [and British and other] Jews will ultimately come down to whether we want to continue to insist on an ethnocratic formulation featuring a Jewish state, or whether we will help Israel to abandon the fiction that it can be an ethnocratic and democratic state at the same time. It cannot.
RK


History repeats. The whole Neocon movement was born from formerly-liberal American Jews who prioritized Israeli security and abandoned anything that conflicted with that goal.
 
I rest my case.

As for the thread topic, peace and then 2 States. At lot of Israelis would agree.
Well you know, what's 30,000+ dead Palestinians anyway. This so-called war is a loss of (mainly Palestinian) life on a scale and speed that has not been seen since the Rwandan genocide. Although whilst on that point I would also point out there is a civil war in Sudan that has claimed at least 14,000 lives and uprooted the entire population - and which is about to get a whole lot worse. More dead people that no one cares about. I think a lot of ordinary citizens are not pro-Palestine per se, they are anti massacre / atrocities / human rights abuses / genocide / death / what Israel is doing - and our government's direct involvement in it (and media complicity). Plus there's plenty of evidence to support the argument that Israel is involved in a genocide / landgrab and has no interest in peace / a two state solution (as pointed out oh about a thousand times on this thread). Anyway here's more on what Israel might do next
.
 
Well you know, what's 30,000+ dead Palestinians anyway. This so-called war is a loss of (mainly Palestinian) life on a scale and speed that has not been seen since the Rwandan genocide.

The may possibly have been true at the start, but it isn't now. Deaths aren't continuing at the scale of the first few months. Not really been since the US told Israel to behave better around January-ish.

The Tigray war in Ethiopia, for example, may have killed up to 600,000 in less than 2 years.

"The United Nations and other institutions estimate about 600,000 civilians in Tigray died and more than 2 million were displaced from November 2020 to August 2022."

 
Well you know, what's 30,000+ dead Palestinians anyway. This so-called war is a loss of (mainly Palestinian) life on a scale and speed that has not been seen since the Rwandan genocide. Although whilst on that point I would also point out there is a civil war in Sudan that has claimed at least 14,000 lives and uprooted the entire population - and which is about to get a whole lot worse. More dead people that no one cares about. I think a lot of ordinary citizens are not pro-Palestine per se, they are anti massacre / atrocities / human rights abuses / genocide / death / what Israel is doing - and our government's direct involvement in it (and media complicity). Plus there's plenty of evidence to support the argument that Israel is involved in a genocide / landgrab and has no interest in peace / a two state solution (as pointed out oh about a thousand times on this thread). Anyway here's more on what Israel might do next
.
I know, it's very sad. I suspect it's more than 30K as well. Many in Isreal want peace. Many do not support the government.
 
I rest my case.

As for the thread topic, peace and then 2 States. At lot of Israelis would agree.
The points I made are established facts not tribal propaganda.
It's very sad? I suspect you wouldn't be describing the situation as 'very sad' If we were talking about 33000 dead Israelis.
 
Peter Beaumont
Despite the increasingly coordinated Iranian denials, there appear to be some consistent features in various threads of information concerning what happened around Isfahan at least.

Eyewitnesses at the city’s airport describe hearing three explosions, while initial claims on Iranian state TV described three drones observed in the sky over Isfahan in the early hours of Friday which it said were destroyed.

It is also worth recalling that early last year, Iran blamed Israel for a strike on a drone production facility in Isfahan.

The New York Times also says it has spoken to two Israeli defence officials and three Iranian officials who apparently confirmed the strike on an airbase near the city, although there is officially a “no comment line” from the Israeli military and Israeli prime ministers office.

 


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