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Bitcoin

matt j said:
I'm not getting dragged back into this on here again, we seem to have it every 4 years when the cycle is close to the halving and it makes mainstream news again.

If you understand it, crack on, if not do everyone a favour and stay clear.
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Oh come on Matt. Where's the fun in that? :p
 
Gingerbeard said:
Gold was once a currency. It then became a commodity and a store of value.

Bitcoin was intended on being a currency, but has become a commodity and a store of value.

The key difference, which many people can’t wrap their heads around, and why Bitcoin is a “better” gold, is that it is digital.

With digital gold as a base layer, it enables a better money and a new currency to be built on top. Owning a part of the base layer money will provide its owner with extremely valuable collateral.

It is this point, that many are now starting to realise. It will be like owning a digital hotel, which can provide a yield and can be moved around the world at the speed of light
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I tried a couple of times, but I don't understand this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't understand "crypto" or blockchains: I have long experience of cryptography, I know exactly how the Bitcoin ledger works, and could easily implement a copy of it for you, and yet I don't understand what you mean by that text...

Plus you have the blockchain technology, something that all major organisations and markets will move onto over the coming year’s
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Blockchain exists independently of bitcoin. It's an algorithm, a method of doing something, and blockchains can be implemented by anyone who wants to (this is why they're are so many "coins" and NFT scams launching every week). So far, though, no application has been found where it is essential. Verification and non-repudiation are fine, but almost all places where you need that, you also need an identifiable (and sueable) entity that will accept responsibility for the integrity of the entire system. Blockchains don't give you that unless they're run by a single entity, but if they are, existing cryptographic signing is an order of magnitude more efficient.

The primary attraction of Bitcoin is that it is anonymous. There are legitimate activities where this is a benefit, but let's be honest about who really cares about this.
 
Gingerbeard said:
Gold was once a currency. It then became a commodity and a store of value.

Bitcoin was intended on being a currency, but has become a commodity and a store of value.

The key difference, which many people can’t wrap their heads around, and why Bitcoin is a “better” gold, is that it is digital.

With digital gold as a base layer, it enables a better money and a new currency to be built on top. Owning a part of the base layer money will provide its owner with extremely valuable collateral.

It is this point, that many are now starting to realise. It will be like owning a digital hotel, which can provide a yield and can be moved around the world at the speed of light

Plus you have the blockchain technology, something that all major organisations and markets will move onto over the coming year’s

I have a small amount of Bitcoin, Etherium, ADA, Solana and XRP, planning on investing a bit more in Bitcoin before the halving next month
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New paradigm rhetoric is always a warning sign. Everything is governed by human behaviour, and there's nothing new in human behaviour.
 
Here in Sweden at least, people has been robbed of their bitcoin's. Violently. Scenario: Someone brags about how much money he made out of bitcoin. Criminals figures out where he lives and breaks into the home during the night. Under threat of violence/after some violence, the owner gives away all his passwords... Ok, can't that be done with ordinary money? Sure, but bitcoins is so much easier to transfer away without any trace. Please replace bitcoin with crypto currency if you like.

Never dared touching it, so I'm stuck with a Porsche...
 
paulfromcamden said:
Really?!

Ah.

My guess is some Dutch guys were having a similar conversation about 400 years ago.
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I've once read a piece on the Dutch tulip boom. For 50 weeks of the year they are just boring brown knobs. What people did was, in the autumn and winter, to promise, on paper, that in the spring when the flowers bloomed, they would pay this amount of Golden if the flowers turned out a particular black and white kind. The boom was over before spring and very little, or no, money ever changed hands, according to my source. Still it was silly.
 
venton said:
Given the enormous environmental impact of creating, storing and tracking bitcoins I have zero respect for anyone who gets involved with them. In fact it highlights everything that is wrong with the human species and what they are doing to the planet.
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You could say the same about gold, but most gold has already been mined and it does have a variety of essential uses. If we stopped mining gold, people could still enjoy it and trade it. The price also has been relatively stable in buying power for centuries.
 
Darth Vader said:
You don't understand the difference between investing and gambling.

DV
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And you don't understand the difference between a question and a statement.
I am not advocating Bitcoin. It is a discussion.
edit Seems closer to a Ponzi scheme than gambling to me as everyone who ever bought and held has made money. Some have made x10 and some even x100... I would certainly advocate that those who have already made a fortune sell part of their holding now so that whatever happens in future they have made a profit. But what do I know... it may go up another x10...
 
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Gingerbeard said:
With digital gold as a base layer, it enables a better money and a new currency to be built on top. Owning a part of the base layer money will provide its owner with extremely valuable collateral.
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Nobody thinks of Bitcoin as commodity money though and that ship has long sailed for the same reason we no longer have the gold standard.
 
RJohan said:
I've once read a piece on the Dutch tulip boom. For 50 weeks of the year they are just boring brown knobs. What people did was, in the autumn and winter, to promise, on paper, that in the spring when the flowers bloomed, they would pay this amount of Golden if the flowers turned out a particular black and white kind. The boom was over before spring and very little, or no, money ever changed hands, according to my source. Still it was silly.
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Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay is the benchmark text.

 
wacko said:
And you don't understand the difference between a question and a statement.
I am not advocating Bitcoin. It is a discussion.
edit Seems closer to a Ponzi scheme than gambling to me as everyone who ever bought and held has made money. Some have made x10 and some even x100... I would certainly advocate that those who have already made a fortune sell part of their holding now so that whatever happens in future they have made a profit. But what do I know... it may go up another x10...
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A small point.
Anyone who has bought and held hasn't made a penny.

Until they sell.
 
Man I had a hundy in PayPal when it was on its arse so I just chocked it in. That’s my problem no vision!
 
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wacko said:
everyone who has ever bought has made money
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No. Just like with most other forms of investment: whether you buy shares or give your money as a present to a ponzi criminal, opening up on your losses makes you look like a moron, which you know you are, so you shut up.

I have more understanding for average people getting ripped off very officially by their bank, after having been sold 'family safe' funds. Credit Suisse back in 2008 anyone ?
 
Bob McC said:
A small point.
Anyone who has bought and held hasn't made a penny.

Until they sell.
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Unlike more traditional investments that produce an income - share divis, bond coupons, land rent etc.

I guess you could sell x amount every year and use that as income but I'm not sure that works with an asset so volatile.

I don't know if that's inherently a problem though if you're more interesting in building your capital.

If I was in my early 20s and had a few grand burning a whole in my pocket that I could afford to lose I think I'd be tempted as the potential upside is so great.

But I'm in my early 50s and hoping to access my retirement savings within a decade so capital preservation is more important.

I also know I'm not smart enough to try and time a market - in my view very few people are consistently.
 
Several people in my office bought Bitcoin a few years ago, just before the price tanked. They had to sell at a big loss.
Bitcoin has a large proportion of the early mined coin missing, mainly to the founder. If these ever surface he is the price will crash.
 
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