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Which Fiat 500?

Arnold Clark had 19 pre-reg 500s the other day all black though but it's the ones with the glass sun roof.

Some red ones now

https://www.arnoldclark.com/nearly-new-cars/fiat/500


Thanks for the suggestions guys - but all that is waaaay over budget for what I want.
Definitely not a penny more than £5k and preferably actual low mileage (i.e. not 80k which is the 'new' low mileage)

The 0.9 TwinAir I missed was £4.7k for a 2014, 43k mileage car - my kind of deal :)

Have seen plenty way over budget on the usual aggregators - for me not even remotely interesting ... I'd rather walk :D
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys - but all that is waaaay over budget for what I want.
Definitely not a penny more than £5k and preferably actual low mileage (i.e. not 80k which is the 'new' low mileage)

The 0.9 TwinAir I missed was £4.7k for a 2014, 43k mileage car - my kind of deal :)

Have seen plenty way over budget on the usual aggregators - for me not even remotely interesting ... I'd rather walk :D

We're trading in a 2019 Fiesta Zetec @ £9,500 so the car is *only* costing about £5,500 plus two products that AC offer which is paint protection and interior protection (we have a dog) and a year's extended warranty after the manufacturer's warranty ends in 2026 so another £700 or something, the manufacturer's warranty comes with breakdown cover as does the AC extended warranty but for another £150 they'll extend the warranty to five years and that also includes breakdown cover (roadside and home).

We're going HP over 60 months @ just under 9% APR per year but hoping to pay off most of the debt well before the 60 months.

Payments are going to be around £250 a month.

The deposit is £99 and there's about £3500 from the trade in too but we owe Ford £6k.
 
My own experiences, as a frequent borrower of the petrol 500 and owner of a 500e is that these are great cars, especially if you need to park on town streets - you can use spaces that nobody else can fit in!

What this is not is a performance car, and once you relax into the idea, they're quite pleasant to drive.

I'm 6'3" and have come out of many 3+ hour drives in a 500 with no aches or pains. There's a lot of headroom, despite the small size. (I also favour an relatively upright driving position).

There have been five engines used in the 500 models sold in the UK, but you get different power levels depending on year and trim. These are:

1.2 FIRE, around 70 bhp in all versions
1.4 FIRE, 100 bhp in regular 500 (very rare). From 135 to 200(!) bhp in Abarth 500.
0.9 SGE "TwinAir" 2 cylinder turbo: 85 and 105 bhp. Discontinued in 2018.
1.3 MultiJet diesel, 75 or 95 bhp
1.0 GSE "FireFly" 3 cylinder turbo + mild hybrid, 70 bhp. The current petrol engine.

These are all very reliable engines. The 2018-2021 1.2 engines lacked torque due to some heavy-handed compliance measures, but the earlier 1.2s are fine once you realise that this is not a car for putting down lap-times. TwinAirs use FIAT's MultiAir variable valve control system, which uses the engine oil as a hydraulic fluid, so a car that has had its oil changes done on schedule is good to see.
The newest, 500 Hybrid, models use a new-to-Europe 1.0 engine, but this has seen a lot of work in Latin America already, and is proven to be reliable there. I wouldn't worry about it.

The automatic option is called "Duologic". It's an automated-clutch system, rather than a traditional torque-converter automatic used in bigger cars. I drove one a long time ago, and it's actually not bad. Again, this is not a performance car, and its action is very much in the "not a performance car" mould. These are very rare, though, and I think all are paired with the 1.2 engine.

Lounge (the middle option) was the best value trim when new. Above that was Sport, and the top-trim Collezione and Dolce Vita. There's also particularly luxe model made in collaboration with Italian boat-builder Riva that ran for a couple of years, and the one-offs with Italian fashion brands (Prada, Diesel, Giorgio Armani).

500s are reliable in general, but negligent maintenance can kill any kind of car. They seem to be good on brakes, and there's not really any problem with clutches, but these tend to be a low-mileage kind of car.

Speaking of, the TwinAirs don't get "awful mileage": they just fall a lot short of the stupendous official figures that they posted on the NEDC driving pattern (70 mpg!). My real-world consumption with a 105 TwinAir was about 48 mpg over the course of two weeks - for a 2011 petrol-engined car, that is still very, very good. A friend owned the cabrio version for five years and got around 40-45 mpg from it (cabrios are always higher consumption due to extra weight and drag).

The 500 is a close twin of the FIAT Panda (and the Lancia Ypsilon, a car that was briefly sold in the UK as "Chrysler Ypsilon" from 2012-14). The 2008-2014 Ford Ka is a mechanical copy of the FIAT 500, designed and built for Ford by FIAT - only the bodywork and interior trim is different between these cars (early 500s had a different rear suspension to the Ka, but the Ford specification was rolled in to the 500 from about 2010 onward). Knowing this fact makes it very easy to see which reviewers allowed bias to cloud their assessment of the car. I remember one publication recommending the Ka on the basis of having a "solid, proven drivetrain" while elsewhere casting doubts over the 500's mechanical reliability.
 
We were considering a Mito or an 500 last year and on advice from my Alfa machanic the best engines if you go petrol for them are the 'FIRE' and 'TJET' engines. The mulit-airs from his experience were much less reliable. We ended up not going with the 500 as we found the seats rather uncomfortable on a long drive we did in it. Around town it would be fine though.
 
I'm still waiting on our Panda but it should arrive this week at the dealer but this below has caught my eye it's about £1000 more expensive and a year older albeit it's only a demonstrator, I think, it's only done ten miles but there's a year less warranty now.

Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Tony

https://www.arnoldclark.com/used-ca...-touchscreen-5dr/2022/ref/cc_wngebpm7ahrb1in1

This is the one that we've 'kinda' ordered.

https://www.arnoldclark.com/nearly-...y-life-touchscreen-5dr/2023/ref/arnbv-n-14226
 
Unless you want the extra power of the twin air, or it has a better spec, wait for the new one. You get a year more warranty (which, unless Fiat have upped their QA game, is always desirable), and it is probably better for fuel economy, being a mild hybrid.
 
Unless you want the extra power of the twin air, or it has a better spec, wait for the new one. You get a year more warranty (which, unless Fiat have upped their QA game, is always desirable), and it is probably better for fuel economy, being a mild hybrid.

Thanks, we certainly don't need a 4 X 4 but it is a higher spec than the hybrid, also Arnold Clark does two additional years warranty with breakdown cover (home start etc) for another £450 so either four years warranty for the 4 X 4 or five years for the hybrid engine car albeit that was registered in April this year so actually about four years and 9 months.

The APR is higher on the 4 X 4 @ 10.9% but the trade in is higher too by about £600 for us to go to the car ie £3400 vs £3900.

Basically the 4 X 4 is a new car that's been registered for over a year and sat in a showroom presumably vs one that's been registered this year, both have the same milage.
 
We were considering a Mito or an 500 last year and on advice from my Alfa machanic the best engines if you go petrol for them are the 'FIRE' and 'TJET' engines. The mulit-airs from his experience were much less reliable. We ended up not going with the 500 as we found the seats rather uncomfortable on a long drive we did in it. Around town it would be fine though.
Early 1.4 MultiAir engines were sensitive to the type of engine oil used (in MultiAir, the engine oil is used as a hydraulic fluid to control valve opening, you you really did have to follow the spec in the service book. Some garages did not.), but the later ones are fine. But, excluding a very small number of early cars, the 1.4 is only used on Abarth models for the 500.

TJet is the name given to the FIRE engines fitted with a turbocharger.

@twotone - do you think AWD will be of any use to you? That's the main difference. The TwinAir has higher power, but against that the AWD will increase your consumption slightly, and your annual service cost will be a little higher. Real-world economy isn't too different between the 1.0 mild-hybrid and the 0.9 TwinAir. The three-cylinder 1.0 sounds a little smoother at low speeds than the 2-cylinder TwinAir, and as an atmospheric-pressure engine, there's a fairly smooth acceleration response too.

Unless you go camping or fishing, I'd stick with the car you ordered.
 
Basically the 4 X 4 is a new car that's been registered for over a year and sat in a showroom presumably

If it *has* been sat there for a while, and the car you have on order is easier to sell, you should be able to negotiate a pretty meaty discount.
 
Early 1.4 MultiAir engines were sensitive to the type of engine oil used (in MultiAir, the engine oil is used as a hydraulic fluid to control valve opening, you you really did have to follow the spec in the service book. Some garages did not.), but the later ones are fine. But, excluding a very small number of early cars, the 1.4 is only used on Abarth models for the 500.

TJet is the name given to the FIRE engines fitted with a turbocharger.

@twotone - do you think AWD will be of any use to you? That's the main difference. The TwinAir has higher power, but against that the AWD will increase your consumption slightly, and your annual service cost will be a little higher. Real-world economy isn't too different between the 1.0 mild-hybrid and the 0.9 TwinAir. The three-cylinder 1.0 sounds a little smoother at low speeds than the 2-cylinder TwinAir, and as an atmospheric-pressure engine, there's a fairly smooth acceleration response too.

Unless you go camping or fishing, I'd stick with the car you ordered.

Thanks Chris, no we don't need AWD, the car is ostensibly for my wife to go back and forward to her work and the shops and the odd trip up north and to the lakes for us.

We live in an urban area and my wife probably only does about 5,000 miles a year.

I've just watched the video, the car reminds me of a Renault Scenic 4 x 4 we had way back in 2003-ish which we both loved but we bought that for the kids as it was an excellent family car.
 
If it *has* been sat there for a while, and the car you have on order is easier to sell, you should be able to negotiate a pretty meaty discount.

The guy in the dealer was telling us that new Fiat Pandas are rarer than hens teeth, we would have bought a new one but they have none and apparently they can't get one for a while, might be BS but they had two pre-reg ones last week and they're both gone now, one to us and someone else has bought the other one.

We bought from a Fiat dealership in Glasgow but they've had to get the Panda from a Fiat dealership in Stourbridge.
 
I contacted the dealer this afternoon with a view to buying the 4X4 but unfortunately it has been sold, it's going out tomorrow morning apparently, my wife's a bit disappointed especially after the guy said it was still available and gave us a price for it.

Oh well:)

Thanks guys.
 
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Another red 500 appeared at a local dealer today .... 2013 with a mere 33k on the clock and only a smidgeon over budget.

So back in the game - will be strolling down in the morning to take a gander ;)
 
I contacted the dealer this afternoon with a view to buying the 4X4 but unfortunately it has been sold, it's going out tomorrow morning apparently, my wife's a bit disappointed especially after the guy said it was still available and gave is a price for it.

Oh well:)

Thanks guys.

:(
Bit of a bummer .....
 
:(
Bit of a bummer .....

I've found another one mike and a higher spec model for the same price as the model we've ordered.

Hopefully the dealer still has either of those cars which are demonstrators/pre-reg, they're phoning me in the morning.

I'm taking my son's car to a local Mercedes dealer tomorrow for a valuation with a view to selling it to them as they've offered a decent price then we're going to go to Arnold Clark to check out the car we ordered from them.

Busy day tomorrow fingers crossed and all of that.

Best of luck with your day hope you get sorted.
 
Hi guys, just to update, I bought a 23 plate Panda 4 X 4 today from Stoneacre Nissan Fiat Worksop who were excellent, they’re sending the car up next week sometime with a driver and he’s picking up my son’s car at the same time as I’ve traded it in with them.

So far I’m pretty delighted with deal and the car, it’s a Panda Wild twinair four seat variant, I think, it really is difficult to pin down the exact model as there’s about 50 variants but I’m pretty sure it’s this one below, not helped of course by the video the dealer sent of the car which described it as the Cross version but I don’t think it is judging by the specs and the versions on the site linked to.

I did a free car check which has it down as a Wild variant first registered on the 30th March this year so three months old but it’s only done about 60 miles plus there’ll be another 250 miles on it by the time it gets to me.

Arnold Clark weren’t pleased but they don’t have a preregistration 4 X 4 they only have a new 4 X 4 in Leeds which is a cancelled order,apparently the buyer failed a financing check but the car is a 21 manufacturered model but has only just delivered due to a stock wait of 18months plus the first year’s road tax is £645 and a £55 registration fee which makes it about £2000 more expensive than the car I’ve bought and so subsequent monthly payments are about £305 with a £3500 deposit but that’s on HP over 60 months, we’re hoping to pay our car off within 24 months and save a bit on the credit charge which is about £3500 coincidentally enough.

Apparently FIAT have discontinued the Panda 4 X 4 now so the only other option is to get one already in the production queue but seemingly that could take another 6-12 months before it’s delivered.

Have to say though Arnold Clark’s manager guy this morning was a bit out of order he basically tried to emotionally blackmail me into taking a car I didn’t want because he brought the car up from the north east of England for me and also because ‘they’ve spent a lot of time on the deal’.


Tony

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/panda/prices-specs/98326/0.9-twinair-85-wild-4x4-touchscreen-5dr
 
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Another red 500 appeared at a local dealer today .... 2013 with a mere 33k on the clock and only a smidgeon over budget.

So back in the game - will be strolling down in the morning to take a gander ;)

Done - guy wouldn't budge on price but was too good to miss, pretty good nick for 10 years old - inside is immaculate, some marks on ext.
Test drive went very well - luckily a long stretch of bendy open road nearby with a steep hill to a village.
Absolute hoot to drive and a real comfy sit ..... I love small cars :)

Good deal on insurance (Churchill, £162 fully comp) £35 tax
Pick it up tomorrow .... YAY !!!

51415086452_61053e421c_o.jpg
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys - but all that is waaaay over budget for what I want.
Definitely not a penny more than £5k and preferably actual low mileage (i.e. not 80k which is the 'new' low mileage)

The 0.9 TwinAir I missed was £4.7k for a 2014, 43k mileage car - my kind of deal :)

Have seen plenty way over budget on the usual aggregators - for me not even remotely interesting ... I'd rather walk :D
That is my kind of price point and mileage!
 
My own experiences, as a frequent borrower of the petrol 500 and owner of a 500e is that these are great cars, especially if you need to park on town streets - you can use spaces that nobody else can fit in!

What this is not is a performance car, and once you relax into the idea, they're quite pleasant to drive.

I'm 6'3" and have come out of many 3+ hour drives in a 500 with no aches or pains. There's a lot of headroom, despite the small size. (I also favour an relatively upright driving position).

There have been five engines used in the 500 models sold in the UK, but you get different power levels depending on year and trim. These are:

1.2 FIRE, around 70 bhp in all versions
1.4 FIRE, 100 bhp in regular 500 (very rare). From 135 to 200(!) bhp in Abarth 500.
0.9 SGE "TwinAir" 2 cylinder turbo: 85 and 105 bhp. Discontinued in 2018.
1.3 MultiJet diesel, 75 or 95 bhp
1.0 GSE "FireFly" 3 cylinder turbo + mild hybrid, 70 bhp. The current petrol engine.

These are all very reliable engines. The 2018-2021 1.2 engines lacked torque due to some heavy-handed compliance measures, but the earlier 1.2s are fine once you realise that this is not a car for putting down lap-times. TwinAirs use FIAT's MultiAir variable valve control system, which uses the engine oil as a hydraulic fluid, so a car that has had its oil changes done on schedule is good to see.
The newest, 500 Hybrid, models use a new-to-Europe 1.0 engine, but this has seen a lot of work in Latin America already, and is proven to be reliable there. I wouldn't worry about it.

The automatic option is called "Duologic". It's an automated-clutch system, rather than a traditional torque-converter automatic used in bigger cars. I drove one a long time ago, and it's actually not bad. Again, this is not a performance car, and its action is very much in the "not a performance car" mould. These are very rare, though, and I think all are paired with the 1.2 engine.

Lounge (the middle option) was the best value trim when new. Above that was Sport, and the top-trim Collezione and Dolce Vita. There's also particularly luxe model made in collaboration with Italian boat-builder Riva that ran for a couple of years, and the one-offs with Italian fashion brands (Prada, Diesel, Giorgio Armani).

500s are reliable in general, but negligent maintenance can kill any kind of car. They seem to be good on brakes, and there's not really any problem with clutches, but these tend to be a low-mileage kind of car.

Speaking of, the TwinAirs don't get "awful mileage": they just fall a lot short of the stupendous official figures that they posted on the NEDC driving pattern (70 mpg!). My real-world consumption with a 105 TwinAir was about 48 mpg over the course of two weeks - for a 2011 petrol-engined car, that is still very, very good. A friend owned the cabrio version for five years and got around 40-45 mpg from it (cabrios are always higher consumption due to extra weight and drag).

The 500 is a close twin of the FIAT Panda (and the Lancia Ypsilon, a car that was briefly sold in the UK as "Chrysler Ypsilon" from 2012-14). The 2008-2014 Ford Ka is a mechanical copy of the FIAT 500, designed and built for Ford by FIAT - only the bodywork and interior trim is different between these cars (early 500s had a different rear suspension to the Ka, but the Ford specification was rolled in to the 500 from about 2010 onward). Knowing this fact makes it very easy to see which reviewers allowed bias to cloud their assessment of the car. I remember one publication recommending the Ka on the basis of having a "solid, proven drivetrain" while elsewhere casting doubts over the 500's mechanical reliability.
As a 6'2" bloke, having had a 595 in the house for 3 years, this comment about loads of headroom baffles me. I hated going in it because my head was already skimming the lining at standstill. As soon as we moved I either had to tip my head to the side or enjoy a dose of roof head-panning!
 
Done - guy wouldn't budge on price but was too good to miss, pretty good nick for 10 years old - inside is immaculate, some marks on ext.
Test drive went very well - luckily a long stretch of bendy open road nearby with a steep hill to a village.
Absolute hoot to drive and a real comfy sit ..... I love small cars :)

Good deal on insurance (Churchill, £162 fully comp) £35 tax
Pick it up tomorrow .... YAY !!!

51415086452_61053e421c_o.jpg
Which engine is it?
 


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