Need fast speakers

[Peter_Tos]

Klipsch, JBL, Altec etc

This is a problem because I don't like JBL. Their LF driver is too far behind the horn, and the horn is too prickly and sharp. The Klipsch has the horn coloring, but the Cornwall model is really interesting to me. I haven't heard the Altec.
Are there any Tannoy models that are subjectively fast?
I have a list of contenders to buy, but I know very little about these speakers. They include the Zu Audio, various models of Lowther, and the Epos 14.

 

[Gervais Cote]

Fast = Proac Tablette for me.

 

[Tony L]

Are there any Tannoy models that are subjectively fast?

I have 15” Monitor Golds in vintage Lockwood cabinets, i.e. proper old-school studio monitors. I don’t view them as fast or slow, but as a bass player they sound like a real bass to me, e.g. if I stick something with a really well recorded bass such as Miles Davis A Tribute To Jack Johnson it sounds like there is an Ampeg bass rig in the room, if I stick some techno on, it has the impact and thwack of a club, but at a more moderate level. What it doesn’t do is that lean dry hard mid-forward ultra-damped thing some foot-tapping hi-fi dealers insist is bass. If that is what you want then Tannoys probably aren’t for you. I’m also not the person to ask as I truly hate that presentation! I can’t stay in the same room with it! Even in my full-on ‘flat-earth’ days with Linn Kan IIs my system was never less than warm and funky, it just couldn’t do the really deep stuff.

 

[Alex S]

You could stick anything on phase 12 Mana. It would be super fast but you’d only get the first half of each note.

 

[Peter_Tos]

What it doesn’t do is that lean dry hard mid-forward ultra-damped thing some foot-tapping hi-fi dealers insist is bass.

Yes, I like a warm presentation too. That's why I previously owned Harbeth, which knew how to soften any sharp record.
Thanks for the tip.
Have you ever listened to a wideband speaker and what is your opinion of such speakers.

 

[Zombie]

Fast = Quad ESL of any flavour

 

[Alex S]

Have you ever listened to a wideband speaker and what is your opinion of such speakers.

My main speakers are Zu Druid MK4. I love them, they are super fast and dynamic - efficient, wideband and no crossover. But they are a marmite speaker so I don’t recommend them on PFM. If you’re in London you are welcome to pop round and see/hear what you think. About £1K second hand. You could also listen to the Genelecs for comparison. My only worry is you look remarkably similar to King Charles III.

 

[Peter_Tos]

My main speakers are Zu Druid MK4

Thank you very much for the offer. I am not in London, unfortunately. But I find it very interesting that you recommend Genelec more than Zu Audio. I can only assume that the Zu Audio sound is more colourful at the top of the range. Does the Genelec seem subjectively faster to you than the Zu Audio?

 

[Alex S]

It’s not easy to answer since I lack the audiophile confidence to recommend the ZUs willy nilly. To me they sound great, and to anyone who’s been here too but they may just be being polite.

Zu detractors find them shouty and tonally wrong but I listen to a lot of classical music and pianos sound more or less like pianos, violins like violins and so on. There’s no doubt whatsoever that they are fast and dynamic.

The Genelecs are simply a very good studio monitor, pretty good at just showing what they’re fed but I would describe them as fast, faster probably than my ProAc Tablettes that were mentioned up thread for being fast. For a grand a pair including power amps they’re good value. I think you’d need three times the budget to get close passively.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Tony L]

Have you ever listened to a wideband speaker and what is your opinion of such speakers.

I assume you mean full-range single drivers. If so, yes, many; various Lowther, Rehdeko, various Mark Audio, even some crazy expensive field-coils I forget the name of. I have almost always left loving certain aspects but felt the frequency balance too limited or coloured to live with. Definitely worth a try though. I think the ones that left the most favourable impression were actually vintage Lowther Acoustas driven by a similar period Quad valve system with a 301 and Decca FFSS arm and cart. I heard some jazz on it and was mesmerised by the drumming, it did brushed drums and dynamics like no other system I’ve heard. Not loud, but just so much nuance and subtlety. Amazing in that respect, but it got other things very wrong tonally (piano etc). Certainly left an impression in the way 98.6% of systems just don’t.

The big three-way horns, Klipsch etc have that dynamic subtlety, but with a lot less colouration. I owned La Scalas for a few years and they remain a benchmark for me in some ways, though again they have obvious flaws too. If I had the space I suspect I’d end up with Altec VOTT or similar. I like Tannoys as they get me some of the way there but being a true point source are acceptable in my typically small spaces. The huge multi-way horn systems need a very big room to breathe properly, the Klipsch kind of get away with it as the mid-horn covers such a huge range (400Hz to about 6kHz IIRC, so it has pretty much all of the vocal range, sax etc, but the integration to both the bass dog-house and tweeter horn is a real mess time alignment wise. You don’t tend to notice as the mechanical roll-off of horns is so extreme (they drop like a stone once the wave is too small/large for the horn geometry) so there isn’t the vast phasey overlap of many multi-driver moving coil speakers. You certainly need to explore horns if in budget and room feasibility.

 

[lawrence001]

From my experience, the fastest speakers tend to have the lightest cones. I did used to think they also needed stronger magnets but then I wondered if that could equally cause a stronger back emf and hence cancel out some of the dynamic gains you'd expect? I'll let others more qualified than me discuss that.

Amplifier slew rate, current delivery/power reservoir and damping factor are important too.

 

[Peter_Tos]

full-range single drivers

Yes

You certainly need to explore horns

Thank you. Yes, I must take a closer look at the horns. Now I have something to think about. But there will always be a choice between fatigue and speed in the horns.

 

[Gervais Cote]

Amplifier slew rate, current delivery/power reservoir and damping factor are important too.

Can only agree with this.
My actual floor standers always sounded slow and sluggish with a few amplifiers and suddenly came to live with speed, dynamic and impact on snare drum when I hooked them up to my Naim NAP 110 which is renowned for its PRaT :



Maybe I should mention the woofers are very low moving mass of 13 grams vs most of the other 6 1/2 woofers are around 20 grams moving mass.

 

[chiily]

This is a problem because I don't like JBL. Their LF driver is too far behind the horn, and the horn is too prickly and sharp. The Klipsch has the horn coloring, but the Cornwall model is really interesting to me. I haven't heard the Altec.
Are there any Tannoy models that are subjectively fast?
I have a list of contenders to buy, but I know very little about these speakers. They include the Zu Audio, various models of Lowther, and the Epos 14.

I think that horn colouring has gone in the Forte IVs now with the reworked crossover and new mid.

 

[Ayya Khema]

High efficiency loudspeakers

 

[Tony L]

But there will always be a choice between fatigue and speed in the horns.

There certainly shouldn’t be. I found the La Scalas wonderfully clean and open in the mid-band and treble without even a hint of harshness or edge. My only issues with them is my room wasn’t big enough for them to integrate fully, they didn’t have enough bass (they roll off real fast at 50Hz), and there was a bit of a cabinet resonance on the bass-horn (that aside the bass was amazing, just so dynamic and agile). That said they were remarkable speakers that did some things I’ve never heard elsewhere. The dynamics is really next-level, not in an aggressive way, more perfectly separating dialogue from music from sound FX etc (I had them in the TV system). A remarkably open and clean speaker with effortless headroom. The exact opposite of the too small speakers being driven far too loud thing you hear at so many shows and dealers. Running a speaker with a spec of 117db output suitable for flying in nightclubs clubs etc (IIRC Studio 54 etc used them above the dance-floor augmented by a lot of sub stacks) at my usual 65-75db TV/background music level was an astonishingly low distortion system. Any good high-efficiency horn has vanishingly low distortion as the driver is moving a tiny fraction of the distance of a conventional moving coil speaker playing at the same level.

PS FWIW I strongly suspect many mistake loudspeaker distortion for ‘excitement’, ‘attack’, ‘punch’, ‘speed’ etc. I’m really sensitive to it as I understand exactly what it is, just as I do compression etc as I’ve spent a lot of time in studios just playing around with stuff. It is so common at hi-fi shows, in dealer dem rooms etc. Some salesman saying “listen to the dynamics!” or whatever when what is happening is blindingly obvious distortion from a tiny bass-mid being pushed far too hard into a harsh mid-forward mess. I refer to it as ‘small speaker fist punch’. The sound of a little driver under strain. Give me the effortless and easy sound of a speaker with vast headroom being asked to do very little every time.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Without knowing more about the specific needs of the OP - and more about his listening environment - I would offer the following as a starting point:

I recommend the OP start with a SEALED BOX (NO PORT) loudspeaker, preferably with an 8” woofer.

In my experience, 8” woofers couple with the room very well and typically offer a superb balanced combination of speed and displacement.

SEALED BOX speaker design offers a speed of delivery that is hard to describe, but very easy to hear. I think this “speed” could be what the OP is listening and hoping for.

If the OP begins with these two foundations - and matches his chosen speaker well with partnering electronics - I think it would be hard to arrive at the wrong (slow) speaker.

 

[camverton]

I suppose it depends on what the OP means by fast, but for me it comes down to excellent transient response something that I find important to give that frisson you get with live acoustic instruments. Over the years I’ve found the best way to achieve this has been with electrostatics and ribbons, and lately with the wide range driver of German Physiks but they are way out of OPs budget. I also found the Dutch and Dutch cardioid speakers were good at transients and sounded alive but not to my ears like the original sound, nonetheless great for rock, electronica and the like, but again not cheap.

Another strategy, I’ve found, is to use dirac DSP full range to improve the impulse response but care needs to be taken not to let it affect the frequency response too much.

 

[ryder]

After my experience with BBC speakers I realised that I need fast sound.

Yes, I like a warm presentation too. That's why I previously owned Harbeth,

May I ask which Harbeth model you previously owned and what amp was used with the speakers?

You may consider Graham if you are looking for a sound that does not deviate too much from the Harbeth but with slightly improved clarity and detail, adding to the speed that you seek.

 

[schneller]

Dynaudio Heritage Special are the fastest I have heard.