So. Assisted Suicide. Good or Bad idea?
- Thread starter merlin
- Start date
Caledon1297
pfm Member
Caledon1297
pfm Member
Former MP Frank Field reveals he is dying at assisted dying bill reading
https://www.theguardian.com/society...eveals-he-is-dying-at-euthanasia-bill-reading
https://www.theguardian.com/society...eveals-he-is-dying-at-euthanasia-bill-reading
nostromo
pfm Member
I really fear that I will not have assisted dying when I need and want it. It really frightens me, so much so that I'm looking at ways to get hold of a secret stash of medicines that might do the job quickly and quietly. It should be a human right. I'll feel more comfortable relaxed and happier knowing I have an off switch should I become terminally ill.
Cheese
Bitter lover
The US experienced great difficulties finding proper medicine for use at e.g. Huntsville. Good luck to you for your search !
nostromo
pfm Member
I watched a documentary by Louis Theroux on American groups giving self-help advice to desperately sick (poor?) people shed this mortal coil. It was very sad and heartbreaking. (a simple plastic bag was distressing to see).
Ronnie Montrose (brilliant guitartist) after learning his cancer had gone metastatic, allegedly downed a bottle of whiskey in his barn and then blew his head off. I admire his guts and his sparing the family and loved ones of seeing him suffering. A true rockstar exit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Montrose
hifinutt
hifinutt
so just reading this bill which is at the house of lords at the moment . then it may progress to the house of commons
this paragraph is interesting
Before countersigning a person’s declaration, the attending doctor and the independent doctor, having separately examined the person and the person’s 25 medical records and each acting independently of the other, must be satisfied that the person—
(a) is terminally ill;
(b) has the capacity to make the decision to end their own life; and
(c) has a clear and settled intention to end their own life which has been 30 reached voluntarily, on an informed basis and without coercion or duress
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2875
Many folks who are beinhg cared for by family do not want to a be a burden . they see their partner or son suffering under the load of care and want that relative to be relieved of that burden. How do you prove this is not duress ?
of course holland has had this assisted euthanasia bill for a while and occassionally runs into problems
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49660525
this paragraph is interesting
Before countersigning a person’s declaration, the attending doctor and the independent doctor, having separately examined the person and the person’s 25 medical records and each acting independently of the other, must be satisfied that the person—
(a) is terminally ill;
(b) has the capacity to make the decision to end their own life; and
(c) has a clear and settled intention to end their own life which has been 30 reached voluntarily, on an informed basis and without coercion or duress
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2875
Many folks who are beinhg cared for by family do not want to a be a burden . they see their partner or son suffering under the load of care and want that relative to be relieved of that burden. How do you prove this is not duress ?
of course holland has had this assisted euthanasia bill for a while and occassionally runs into problems
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49660525
Cav
pfm Member
The Bill seems to address the issue quite sensibly, particularly the requirement for two separate and independent assessments, and the option of reference to a third party if capacity is in doubt, and that the terminally ill patient must administer the fatal medication him/herself.
mikechadwick
pfm Member
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Having witnessed the unfair, agonising death of somebody close to me I do agree that it should be a human right.
hifinutt
hifinutt
you can certainly give an independant assessment of capacity but how do you suss out duress . people can be VERY convincing . If i had mnd i am pretty sure i could put up a very convincing show to persuade any medical practitioner . but my motives may well be influenced by the desire to relieve others of the burden of worry and care .
hifinutt
hifinutt
In a cash strapped society with limited resources . what better way to save money than end life sooner rather than spending millions on palliative care
this is the subject of this paper
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199807163390306
What Are the Potential Cost Savings from Legalizing Physician-Assisted Suicide?
Many have linked the effort to reduce the high cost of death with the legalization of physician-assisted suicide. One commentator observed: “Managed care and managed death [through physician-assisted suicide] are less expensive than fee-for-service care and extended survival. Less expensive is better.”22 Some of the amicus curiae briefs submitted to the Supreme Court expressed the same logic: “Decreasing availability and increasing expense in health care and the uncertain impact of managed care may intensify pressure to choose physician-assisted suicide”23 and “the cost effectiveness of hastened death is as undeniable as gravity. The earlier a patient dies, the less costly is his or her care.”24 Indeed, the Supreme Court noted the potential for cost-saving motives to influence the legalization and use of physician-assisted suicide, speculating that “if physician-assisted suicide were permitted, many might resort to it to spare their families the substantial financial burden of end-of-life health care costs.”1
this is the subject of this paper
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199807163390306
What Are the Potential Cost Savings from Legalizing Physician-Assisted Suicide?
Many have linked the effort to reduce the high cost of death with the legalization of physician-assisted suicide. One commentator observed: “Managed care and managed death [through physician-assisted suicide] are less expensive than fee-for-service care and extended survival. Less expensive is better.”22 Some of the amicus curiae briefs submitted to the Supreme Court expressed the same logic: “Decreasing availability and increasing expense in health care and the uncertain impact of managed care may intensify pressure to choose physician-assisted suicide”23 and “the cost effectiveness of hastened death is as undeniable as gravity. The earlier a patient dies, the less costly is his or her care.”24 Indeed, the Supreme Court noted the potential for cost-saving motives to influence the legalization and use of physician-assisted suicide, speculating that “if physician-assisted suicide were permitted, many might resort to it to spare their families the substantial financial burden of end-of-life health care costs.”1
hifinutt
hifinutt
"in general, arguments over euthanasia are primarily based on practical, religious and ethical issues. The key factors that compel an individual to seek for euthanasia are pain and psychological factors such as depression. Pain caused by disease conditions becomes relatively unbearable at some disease levels. For instance, patients who experience intense pain and suffering because of some health conditions such as breathlessness, incontinence and paralysis consider an early death than prolonged agony caused by pain and discomfort. Recent survey reports that were conducted in the U.S showed that most patients who request for euthanasia face severe physical conditions, which seem to degrade the quality of life. Further survey results showed that a third of patients in the Netherlands seek for euthanasia because of severe pain that is caused by their illnesses (Nicholson, 2000)."
a very interesting article on the euthanasia debate
https://www.grin.com/document/411985
it goes on to say
Secondly, libertarians argue that euthanasia can be regulated through defining circumstances at which it can be sought for, in the event that an individual faces severe health conditions (Nicholson, 2000). In addition, they suggest that legitimizing euthanasia will help to reduce the burden on healthcare resources, which are currently strained by high costs of maintaining the terminally ill patients. Therefore, they consider it to be realistic if euthanasia is allowed because it can ensure equitable distribution of healthcare resources.
a very interesting article on the euthanasia debate
https://www.grin.com/document/411985
it goes on to say
Secondly, libertarians argue that euthanasia can be regulated through defining circumstances at which it can be sought for, in the event that an individual faces severe health conditions (Nicholson, 2000). In addition, they suggest that legitimizing euthanasia will help to reduce the burden on healthcare resources, which are currently strained by high costs of maintaining the terminally ill patients. Therefore, they consider it to be realistic if euthanasia is allowed because it can ensure equitable distribution of healthcare resources.
hifinutt
hifinutt
Drs are VERY powerful people . there may be whistleblowers but in the NHS they are OFTEN silenced
Not long ago this happened in Gosport
At least 450 patients are thought to have died after the administration of inappropriately high doses of opioids between 1988 and 2000 at Gosport War Memorial Hospital. In June 2018, the report of the Gosport Independent Panel into failures of care was published. The report found no evidence that the pharmacists providing services to the hospital, or the Portsmouth Hospitals NHS trust drug and therapeutics committee which covered the Gosport War Memorial Hospital had challenged prescribing practices.
That such prescribing practice remained unchallenged for a prolonged period of time despite initial concerns being raised by nursing staff raises concerns for current providers of pharmacy services. These providers include the traditional hospital pharmacy services as well as newer service models that include outsourced and alternative service providers.
this is RECENT and can happen again .
More than 15,000 death certificates are being examined by police investigating the deaths of patients at a hospital.
An inquiry found 456 patients died after being given opiates at Gosport War Memorial Hospital between 1987 and 2001, but no charges have been brought.
An independent investigation, led by Kent and Essex Serious Crime Directorate, is reviewing millions of pages of evidence.
About 150 detectives and staff are expected to be involved in the probe.
Police began the inquiry in 2019 into 700 deaths after the Gosport Independent Review Panel found there was a "disregard for human life" at the hospital in Hampshire.
Coroner-led inquests in 2009 found drugs administered at the hospital contributed to five deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-56404256
Not long ago this happened in Gosport
At least 450 patients are thought to have died after the administration of inappropriately high doses of opioids between 1988 and 2000 at Gosport War Memorial Hospital. In June 2018, the report of the Gosport Independent Panel into failures of care was published. The report found no evidence that the pharmacists providing services to the hospital, or the Portsmouth Hospitals NHS trust drug and therapeutics committee which covered the Gosport War Memorial Hospital had challenged prescribing practices.
That such prescribing practice remained unchallenged for a prolonged period of time despite initial concerns being raised by nursing staff raises concerns for current providers of pharmacy services. These providers include the traditional hospital pharmacy services as well as newer service models that include outsourced and alternative service providers.
this is RECENT and can happen again .
More than 15,000 death certificates are being examined by police investigating the deaths of patients at a hospital.
An inquiry found 456 patients died after being given opiates at Gosport War Memorial Hospital between 1987 and 2001, but no charges have been brought.
An independent investigation, led by Kent and Essex Serious Crime Directorate, is reviewing millions of pages of evidence.
About 150 detectives and staff are expected to be involved in the probe.
Police began the inquiry in 2019 into 700 deaths after the Gosport Independent Review Panel found there was a "disregard for human life" at the hospital in Hampshire.
Coroner-led inquests in 2009 found drugs administered at the hospital contributed to five deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-56404256
